US-USSR scenrio playetesters needed

LOK

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Dan Neely said:
Sounds good to me, that's about what Viridomaros is doing, the two of you combined should fill most of my play time.
Great! I will send you my turn in a day or so.
 

Menschenfresser

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Started a second hotseat game now that I know a little bit more about the system.

T1 & 2: Mobilized WP West/SW & Southern groups. Also mobilized Iraq, Syria and Lebenon. While I don't have an end game strategy since I don't know how the game plays out, I plan to initially attack Western Europe & Turkey. The Turkish invasion will come from three sides: Balkans to Istanbul, Caucasus/Iraq/Syria and a seaborne invasion aimed north of Ankara. Europe, I hope to push hard in the center, largely ignoring Austria, Yugo, etc. The WP thrust into Europe is going to see one of the largest airborne drops ever! Once the Balkan forces retake the continent, most will peel off and hit Greece. If that goes off without too much loss. The WP will be ready for a sea invasion of either Italy or Egypt. Haven't decided.

NATO mobilized as well as US reserves, I think. Also mobilized Austria to better defend Vienna. The French forces remain in France for the moment on a rail line to function as mobile reserves. Paratroopers, SEAL teams, and other elite units are staying put to deal with WP paras, etc. Greeks pulled back to guard Thessoloniki even though the WP isn't headed that way yet. The Israelis will probably mobilize on T2 seeing the mobilization of its Arab neighbors, and Centcom is debating releasing its forces in case Iraq tries to slip into Kuwait. The pacific is quiet.

I'm not really playing with points so much in mind this game. Just trying to keep to the rules.

And DAMN! there are a lot of WP air units. I noticed at least one WP air unit that has a large range difference in the two types of planes comprising it. I don't have the unit ID in front of me.
 

Dan Neely

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Menschenfresser said:
Started a second hotseat game now that I know a little bit more about the system.

T1 & 2: Mobilized WP West/SW & Southern groups. Also mobilized Iraq, Syria and Lebenon. While I don't have an end game strategy since I don't know how the game plays out, I plan to initially attack Western Europe & Turkey. The Turkish invasion will come from three sides: Balkans to Istanbul, Caucasus/Iraq/Syria and a seaborne invasion aimed north of Ankara. Europe, I hope to push hard in the center, largely ignoring Austria, Yugo, etc. The WP thrust into Europe is going to see one of the largest airborne drops ever! Once the Balkan forces retake the continent, most will peel off and hit Greece. If that goes off without too much loss. The WP will be ready for a sea invasion of either Italy or Egypt. Haven't decided.
You might want to reconsider not mobilizing the north command, north fleet naval aviation has several more long range naval bomber units to harras the convoy routes with.

A general comment on Central Europe, a longer front is generally to the soviet advantage since it forces farther nato breakdowns to cover, and you can't stack divs without a loss penalty. The exception is if it gets to the point you have to begin breaking down yourself Depending on how hard you push in Turkey you may/not have enough troops to stretch it.

You've got about 2x the available airborne as you do transport to drop them, be sure to keep that in mind while planning your strike.

For the naval attack, italy's a safer target, the Egyptian army's big enough to squash the small force you could land, and has relatively few ports to defend. Italy's also far more vulnerable to blown bridge pralysis. The bigger problem is that you don't have supply points in any invasion hexs.

NATO mobilized as well as US reserves, I think. Also mobilized Austria to better defend Vienna. The French forces remain in France for the moment on a rail line to function as mobile reserves. Paratroopers, SEAL teams, and other elite units are staying put to deal with WP paras, etc. Greeks pulled back to guard Thessoloniki even though the WP isn't headed that way yet. The Israelis will probably mobilize on T2 seeing the mobilization of its Arab neighbors, and Centcom is debating releasing its forces in case Iraq tries to slip into Kuwait. The pacific is quiet.
Unless nato pumped alot of troops into austria, whacking it quickly should be to your advantage since covering it's entire border will require alot of troops. Yugo's very weak, asside from it's handful of armor bdes most of it's troops are very prone to being aved by a fresh division, the force you need to screen your border against a nato mobilization and the railing of a halfdozenish divsions to strike at your flank's almost large enough to pull off a one turn smash, and afterwards the same force will should be able to screen the italian border keeping them tied down. Unless you've stripped the border to the bone, or don't have enough troops facing the greeks to hold thier army down, there's really little to loose in a strike. Even if you can't one turn the capital, you can bomb out enough bridges to prevent any rapid reinforcement.

I'm not really playing with points so much in mind this game. Just trying to keep to the rules.

And DAMN! there are a lot of WP air units. I noticed at least one WP air unit that has a large range difference in the two types of planes comprising it. I don't have the unit ID in front of me.
It's probably in strategic avaiation, there're several mixed units there, although I think one or two balkan units with m19's might have the same problem since they've got a much longer range than most other soviet fighters. The NK airfarce is organized with mixed units as well. NK's the one that bugs me more since I'd like to split alot of the 'fighter' units in half and use the obsolete mig17/19's for air to mud actions. Nato has a disgusting number of air units as well, it's less apparent since they're largely based at the border.

EDIT: just fixed quoting
 
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Menschenfresser

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Thanks for the advice, Dan.

I was planning on moving into Austria, but the bulk of my forces are headed up the gut. Yugo might come as an after thought...haven't decided. Although it would be nice to have a port on the Adriatic to reinforce the invasion of Italy. I'll have to look over the supply points and see if I can't grab something. If the main Euro thrust weakens the Italian position, the invasion might come in N. Italy in an attempt to crack open the southern front. Yea, I probably will mobilize N. Command if it adds more antishipping capabilities. The WP doesn't like the reports its getting of the Europe bound 2nd Fleet.

LOK, I'm a little confused about Israel as a part of the larger middle east. Since Egypt is an ally of the US, can Israel come to their aid? I know they can't stack or attack together, but can they enter friendly territory. I might have missed this in the briefing.
 

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I second everything that Dan said about strategy.
As far as the air units go: I had to make some compromises. Generally I tried to follow the OOB for each nation. Also I tried to put one A/C type per unit bu that was not always possible since some units fly several types. I also tried to merge units that flew the same type of A/C to minimize the total number of units.
Apparently there is feeling that the number of air units is "disgustingly" high. (Am I right guys?). Would you like me to reduce it?

For Egypt: Egypt is included under the Arab-Israeli house rule, no enetering each other's hexes, stacking etc. (see briefing for exact details)

I hope this helps :)
 

Menschenfresser

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For my part, I'd like to see some reduction in the number of air units. But I'm not so sure it's desired what with the way one can batter airfields with those long range missiles. A little consolidation might be a good thing.
 

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Menschenfresser said:
For my part, I'd like to see some reduction in the number of air units. But I'm not so sure it's desired what with the way one can batter airfields with those long range missiles. A little consolidation might be a good thing.
OK I will see what I can do while preserving the OOB and single A/C type per unit.
Dan what do you think?
 

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Menschenfresser said:
For my part, I'd like to see some reduction in the number of air units. But I'm not so sure it's desired what with the way one can batter airfields with those long range missiles. A little consolidation might be a good thing.
AFAIK missle bombards are a strait percentage loss, the number of units in the stack is irrelevant. Most nato AC have the range to operate from beyond scud range, and the attack1 heavy missles are irrelevant as bombards, in any event they're primarily nuke carriers and won't be deployed by default in the next version. A few places like isreal, South Korea, and possibly Greece (not sure if they have enough safe fields) are vulnerable to missle strikes, but otherwise all the modern AC can safelty pull back. Isreal's not a major concern since even with both iraqi scud batteries in support suppressing thier large airforce is easier said than done. Short range ac like the alphajet are screwed by scud attacks though.

Personally, I don't think the total number of air units is too high. If you try and cram them all into Germany at the expense of every other theater it's alot, but covering down into the balkans and up into scandanavia it's more reasonable. Otherwise a single reorg would have too large a proportional impact IMO.

Large scale consolidation of modern units would produce excessively powerful single units. Modern attack units already have good chances of wasting a bridge regardless of weather. Further consolidation would only reduce the number of bridges I could frag in a single turn. I'd like to add that while keeping every bridge up's near impossible, keeping the rail routes you actaully use for reinforcements up despite crazy bombing isn't difficult. The only problem is when a minor area suddenly becomes important and you don't have major engineering support handy.
 

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Dan Neely said:
AFAIK missle bombards are a strait percentage loss, the number of units in the stack is irrelevant. Most nato AC have the range to operate from beyond scud range, and the attack1 heavy missles are irrelevant as bombards, in any event they're primarily nuke carriers and won't be deployed by default in the next version. A few places like isreal, South Korea, and possibly Greece (not sure if they have enough safe fields) are vulnerable to missle strikes, but otherwise all the modern AC can safelty pull back. Isreal's not a major concern since even with both iraqi scud batteries in support suppressing thier large airforce is easier said than done. Short range ac like the alphajet are screwed by scud attacks though.

Personally, I don't think the total number of air units is too high. If you try and cram them all into Germany at the expense of every other theater it's alot, but covering down into the balkans and up into scandanavia it's more reasonable. Otherwise a single reorg would have too large a proportional impact IMO.

Large scale consolidation of modern units would produce excessively powerful single units. Modern attack units already have good chances of wasting a bridge regardless of weather. Further consolidation would only reduce the number of bridges I could frag in a single turn. I'd like to add that while keeping every bridge up's near impossible, keeping the rail routes you actaully use for reinforcements up despite crazy bombing isn't difficult. The only problem is when a minor area suddenly becomes important and you don't have major engineering support handy.
Thanks for the feedback.
I think I may have misunderstood your orginal "disgusting" comment about the number of air units then.
I am manily of the same opinion on most of the points you made. I found that having more air units (although they are pain to keep track of) is actually beneficial for a variety of reasons. I will still try and consolidate some small units when appropriate.
 

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LOK said:
Thanks for the feedback.
I think I may have misunderstood your orginal "disgusting" comment about the number of air units then.
I am manily of the same opinion on most of the points you made. I found that having more air units (although they are pain to keep track of) is actually beneficial for a variety of reasons. I will still try and consolidate some small units when appropriate.
yeah, I was using a combo of hyperbole and sarcasm in that comment, nato's no worse than the pact, and they do need that many units for the same reasons. Also, if air units were several times as large you could have ludicrus situations like a thousand aircraft cap over the atlantic radiating from keflavik that would eat bomber strikes alive.

If possible, one thing that would make managing them easier would be to reorder the formations so that all the air units are in a single block. To avoid missing anything I generally start the turn by cycling through each formation to reset all the resting air units. being able to skip the mess of land formations while doing so would make it much faster. Or if you don't want to completely restructure it, at least move all the soviet units into blocks by tvd instead of interspersing them peicemeal between combat formations.
 

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Coyote said:
When will this scenario be available for all to download. Sounds like my kind of melee,
I'd be happy to e-mail it to you. Several people are playtesting it as we speak. Of course, with a scenario of this size, it is never "finished". I just want to make sure there are no glaring bugs.
 

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LOK said:
I'd be happy to e-mail it to you. Several people are playtesting it as we speak. Of course, with a scenario of this size, it is never "finished". I just want to make sure there are no glaring bugs.
I would love to take a look at the scenario and I would probably want to playtest it with you if you are still interested!

Please mail to ds@mysoft.se

Thank you in advance!

/ratbag
 

LOK

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ratbag said:
I would love to take a look at the scenario and I would probably want to playtest it with you if you are still interested!

Please mail to ds@mysoft.se

Thank you in advance!

/ratbag
Given the limited time I can spend on this here is what I am planning to do with the scenario:

I will publish the current version of the scenario in the next couple fo weeks and let people check it.
I will continue support it if there is enough interest but frankly I think it has become too big and cumbersome and is more than the TOAW game engine can support.

I plan to split it in two (and may be later 3) scenarios: Europe/Middle east and Pacific (Central-South Asia may be added later).

I have 2-3 minor things to change and I will publish it in a week or so.
Thanks for your interest
 

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one more from belgium hehe :nuts:
i will mail you the scenario if the designer doesn't show up, but i would prefer to let the designer send it to you
 

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My apologies to any of you who have been waiting for the scenario. To be honest, I have not been able to do any work on any TOAW scenario the last three months (work, vacation, kids etc. etc.). I need a couple of days of work to finish off some details and the documentation. I hope to do that in the next week or so. Again, sorry for the long delay.
 
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