US Army Infantry Battalion/Regiment HQ Company personnel

21Z5M

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What are your thoughts on their representation? The TO&E has them armed with a mixture of M1 Garands and Carbines. Should I avoid 6-6-6 counters altogether and go strictly with 2nd Line and Green squads? Having been in a HQ Company myself I know some of the senior NCOs are very skilled but they are overseeing clerks, mechanics and cooks.

thanks

Keith
 

R Hooks

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I feel like they should slowly become first line or even elite troops if you're doing a battalion campaign game. A lot of them will be placed into front lines as temporary replacements or as details on front line areas. My time scale would be something like unit lands in Normandy before the break out, mostly 2nd line with a few green, Paris falls, a first line and mostly second line, unless they took on a replacement, winter 44, mostly first line, Rhine crossed, some elites, first lines, 2nd and maybe a green replacement. Don't get trapped too much by the TO&E esp. in US army these guys will have anything they want after a few months. in my opinion
 

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Are you including the I&R PLT (Bn Scouts) also part of HQ Co? Perhaps HW PLT 3x.30-cal HMG, 1x.50-cal HMG, along with 8x BAZ Tms? Bn MTR Plt is obvious (usually 81mm) as is the A-T PLT with 3x37 or 57mm ATGs. Admittedly the Cooks, maintenance personnel, clerks, aid & litter personnel, etc. may have been a little less trained for front lie duty, but one should take a look a the entire HQ Co TOE (RGT often even contained an attached/augmented Eng Plt).
 

21Z5M

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I'm strictly speaking of the company. The guys that may have had infantry training but have been on staff as radio operator or working in an S Section. They have to take a building
 

Eagle4ty

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My gut feeling is that probably a mix of 666 (a very few) & 546 personnel should fit the bill. I'm fairly certain they could skinny up some KPs and others (runners perhaps) that had been sent back from the rifles and some well led motivated REMFs to make at least a respectable squad or two and others that would probably be less effective with their lack of front line experience. It's my guess that these people would be led by some fairly qualified and respected NCOs in their field (probably a kick up to basic Morale or at least faith in their leadership) and probably a fair number of higher ranking experienced commissioned officers. It has been my experience that regardless of rank, the rear area Officers/NCOs were always pretty motivated to get into the action when forced upon them (i.e. they were job completion minded) and may have been former front line personnel themselves.
 

Michael Dorosh

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I feel like they should slowly become first line or even elite troops if you're doing a battalion campaign game. A lot of them will be placed into front lines as temporary replacements or as details on front line areas.
On the other hand, sometimes the occasional s***pump could be dumped from the line squads and platoons and put where they could do the least amount of damage. Flags of our Fathers suggested that Rene Gagnon was a paper tiger and made company runner for that reason, for example. Also, guys with injuries (physical or psychological) might be retained by the company for light duties, etc.
 

Yuri0352

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On the other hand,
Rene Gagnon managed to survive the battle of Iwo Jima, in an environment which I can only imagine would have been extremely hazardous to his survival, notwithstanding his company runner status. Admittedly, I've only read Flags of Our Fathers once, and viewed the movie 2 or 3 times, and I certainly was not a member of the 5th Marine Division. Just the same, I was a bit taken aback by seeing the name of an Iwo Jima survivor listed within the same paragraph as 'paper tiger' and 's***pump'.
 

Michael Dorosh

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On the other hand,
Rene Gagnon managed to survive the battle of Iwo Jima, in an environment which I can only imagine would have been extremely hazardous to his survival, notwithstanding his company runner status. Admittedly, I've only read Flags of Our Fathers once, and viewed the movie 2 or 3 times, and I certainly was not a member of the 5th Marine Division. Just the same, I was a bit taken aback by seeing the name of an Iwo Jima survivor listed within the same paragraph as 'paper tiger' and 's***pump'.
Eddie Slovik was a "survivor" of the Battle of Normandy, too...

IIRC in the film the discussion between Barry Pepper and Neal McDonough was a reflection of Gagnon's ability (or perhaps more accurately, his squad/platoon leadership's perception of that ability) to hack it in a rifle squad. You may be conflating my comments, though I may have not made a clear enough distinction between s***pump and someone not suited for employment at the sharp end. Not necessarily the same thing; many otherwise good men did not have the ability to keep up with the day-in, day-out of a combat rifle squad. I took McDonough's comment ("you mean our very own Tyrone Power?") as a subtle jab at not just his looks but his ability. Pepper's character is more explicit in his comments.
 

Yuri0352

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Eddie Slovik was a "survivor" of the Battle of Normandy, too...

IIRC in the film the discussion between Barry Pepper and Neal McDonough was a reflection of Gagnon's ability (or perhaps more accurately, his squad/platoon leadership's perception of that ability) to hack it in a rifle squad. You may be conflating my comments, though I may have not made a clear enough distinction between s***pump and someone not suited for employment at the sharp end. Not necessarily the same thing; many otherwise good men did not have the ability to keep up with the day-in, day-out of a combat rifle squad. I took McDonough's comment ("you mean our very own Tyrone Power?") as a subtle jab at not just his looks but his ability. Pepper's character is more explicit in his comments.
Or perhaps the dialogue depicted in the film is nothing more than a Hollywood interpretation of what is a prime example of the type of ball-busting that occurs on a virtually daily basis in the Marine Corps. Probably not the type of character assessment that should be taken as gospel. Comparing Gagnon to Pvt. Slovik seems to be at best a bit of a stretch, at worst a slander against an honorably discharged combat veteran.
Oh well, knock yourself out, anything goes on the internet, right?
 

Michael Dorosh

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Or perhaps the dialogue depicted in the film is nothing more than a Hollywood interpretation of what is a prime example of the type of ball-busting that occurs on a virtually daily basis in the Marine Corps.
You should probably watch the movie again if you're going to comment on it. The scene we're discussing is the one with the company commander talking to one of the squad leaders on the eve of battle - they're not at a slop chute. The squad leader's assessment is that Gagnon can't cut it in the rifle squad. I didn't make it up, just watched it. Seems like a good example of why guys are put into company headquarters. Even in my own modest service I've seen some lulus get reassigned. Anyway, the whole point of mentioning it was to provide some counterpoint to the notion that the headquarters squad should be considered elite, since while the NCOs may have been more experienced, the other ranks were often put there for varying reasons - including not wanting them in the rifle squads.

Comparing Gagnon to Pvt. Slovik seems to be at best a bit of a stretch
Just because someone is a veteran or a "survivor" it isn't a guarantee of his character.


Godwin would tell you that Hitler was also an honorably discharged combat veteran....
 

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I'd make them 2nd line with an ELR 1 lower than normal for that time frame. I'd have 1-2 extra leaders, but not have any really high level. Maybe demote every leader 1 step.

Whether this is justified or not, it makes for more flavour.
 
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