Updated KGP maps for VASL?

bprobst

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There's nothing wrong (that I know of) with the current KGP maps available (ST, CH and LG) but there is room for improvement (as there was room for improvement on the original RB map leading to the RBv2 map).

Specifically, I am contemplating the tedious task of pulling out my fine black pen, my magnivisor and a strong desk lamp and drawing in the contour lines on the paper maps (and I'm still dreading the potential for catastrophic errors). I was recently playing a scenario on the paper maps and the issue with identifying the contour lines was seriously doing my head in. Sadly, using the VASL maps would not have significantly made much difference to this problem, even at extreme magnification.

So I'm wondering if there's some nutter fine individual out there with nothing better to do keen for a challenge willing to do the same work (i.e., highlighting the contour lines) on the KGP maps for VASL?

(I'm thinking that even more than most such tasks there would be need for some close scrutiny and peer review afterwards -- hardly less tedious than doing the initial work.)
 

Sully

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Having just completed the ST CG on VASL I feel your pain. Being partially red-green colorblind I literally could not see the elevations in the hexes around the stream. The map desperately needs a once-over with a better color pallet.

@BigAl737 and I have been chatting on getting a new version of the board out. Al's been swamped with other work (read: RO) and I'm not really a map guy so I'd need to wait for help from him or someone else.

Which is a long-winded way of saying it's on the to-do list.

-Sully
 

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of the bunch - the La Geize map is probably the worst offender. It is tough even on VASL to get the map levels correct. I would enjoy seeing the same thing - but I also know that A- it means a ton of work for at least 4-5 people and B- most all of us would rather enjoy playing ASL to doing something like this with our ASL time.

KRL, jon H
 

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it means a ton of work for at least 4-5 people
Forgive my ignorance, but what's involved that it requires so much work? bprobst said "highlighting the contour lines", which sounds like making the transition between each hill level clearer (presumably in the map GIF), which doesn't sound like that much work. Is there something else that needs to be done...?
 
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Sully

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I'm not sure what Jon's thinking with the small army he is suggesting. Maps are pretty much a one man show. Obviously with KGP there are 3 maps, so it would be easy to get up to three people involved.

Adding contours wouldn't be that hard, but the maps have aged, so they are good candidates for a do-over. Starting from scratch ups the amount of work substantially, but it also ups the rewards with a much better product in the end. Think RB v2.

-Sully
 

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Doing a palette swap is probably easier than adding the contours. Not sure if that would be sufficient to achieve the desired result but I had my wife try it on Photoshop the other day and it didn't seem that bad.
 

witchbottles

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Forgive my ignorance, but what's involved that it requires so much work? bprobst said "highlighting the contour lines", which sounds like making the transition between each hill level clearer (presumably in the map GIF), which doesn't sound like that much work. Is there something else that needs to be done...?
I'm not sure what Jon's thinking with the small army he is suggesting. Maps are pretty much a one man show. Obviously with KGP there are 3 maps, so it would be easy to get up to three people involved.

Adding contours wouldn't be that hard, but the maps have aged, so they are good candidates for a do-over. Starting from scratch ups the amount of work substantially, but it also ups the rewards with a much better product in the end. Think RB v2.

-Sully
Verification of the work once it is complete. It will require a few proofreaders to ensure it is correct across al l3 maps before the boardfile is assimilated.
 

bprobst

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Not sure if that would be sufficient to achieve the desired result
I would say probably not. There are plenty of hexes on the original paper maps where the contour lines are simply not visible at all, and the underlying level colour is completely obscured. Now, granted, many of these hexes are in parts of the map that's not going to see a lot of action, but that doesn't alter the underlying issue. (That's not even considering those hexes where you realise that it must be a double crest buried under the woods artwork!) The "work" I envision in the process is not the initial contour drawing (tedious but "simple") but the double-checking afterwards to make sure that everyone agrees about the line placement. These are big maps with hundreds of hexes and virtually every single hex needs to be looked at closely, both on its own and in comparison with the hexes around it. (The presence of all of those slopes also needs to be verified as occasionally they're not as visible as they should be.) (Also: there are a few examples of actual errata to the paper maps, and I don't know if that errata has been incorporated into the current VASL maps -- so that will need to be checked and double-checked as well.)

Having visible contour lines -- even if they're drawn in arbitrarily -- makes the maps considerably more playable. Playing with the colours may help, but there are a lot of level colours and I reckon it's easier to just draw a line than make a decision about which colours on the palette are sufficiently distinguishable when placed next to each other.

Of course I say all that with essentially zero knowledge about how a VASL map is made. :)
 

zgrose

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I would say probably not. There are plenty of hexes on the original paper maps where the contour lines are simply not visible at all, and the underlying level colour is completely obscured. Now, granted, many of these hexes are in parts of the map that's not going to see a lot of action, but that doesn't alter the underlying issue.
Just so we're all on the same page, can you cite a map and hex where you see this? I ask because I note the VASL (maybe even the print?) map is atypical in bleeding the level information through the terrain graphics in places. For example, LG C12 and D12.
 

bprobst

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As it happens I just finished drawing the crest lines on my paper Lg map ....

I'm not sure what your example is trying to demonstrate. On the paper maps, Lg C12 & D12 are examples of the different elevations being very clear and not at all obscured. In fact I think the demarcation in those hexes on the paper map is considerably more clear than on the VASL map!

However, hexes like Lg AA3, AA4 and AA5 are examples of very-difficult-to-see crest lines on the paper map; the VASL map is better. Also G5, H5 and I6.

It gets harder when the crest lines are hidden by hedges. The crest lines in Lg N21, O21 and P20 (and surrounding hexes) are particularly difficult IMO. (The VASL maps do better here than the paper maps.)

Regardless, any revision of the VASL maps that does not add contour lines is wasted effort (IMO).
 

zgrose

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However, hexes like Lg AA3, AA4 and AA5 are examples of very-difficult-to-see crest lines on the paper map; the VASL map is better. Also G5, H5 and I6.
TY, these are great examples.
 
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