Underlined Morale and ELR 3

[Mongo5486]

A 5-4-8 is given underlined morale per SSR and the ELR is 3. The 5-4-8 fails a morale check and exceeds ELR. What happens to it? What about a half squad given the same circumstances?

 

[ctewks]

A19.132 comes into play - my mistake!

 

[Binchois]

Typically, if the ELR of such units is reduced below 5, the rules remain the same as per the EXCeption in A19.13.

However, since the underscored morale with reduced ELR is present due to SSR assignment, A19.132 takes precedence:

A19.132 Whenever a SSR (not just an OB) specifically assigns an ELR ≤ 4 to units with an underscored Morale Factor, they suffer Unit Replacement normally regardless of the severity of the quality drop thereby resulting (e.g., a German 6-5-8 → a 4-4-7; a British 6-4-8 → a 4-4-7 ). Likewise, with a mixed OB of MMC both with and without an underscored Morale Factor, an ELR ≤ 4 would apply to those MMC with an underscored Moral Factor only via SSR.​

​

I believe 5-4-8s become 4-4-7s

 

[Brian W]

I believe 5-4-8s become 4-4-7s

Since that is what the rules would normally require, why did the designers put an SSR in place? Much more likely that the designer and editor wanted the 548 to ELR to two broken 238s, regardless of how the SSR is worded.

 

[Brian W]

A 5-4-8 is given underlined morale per SSR and the ELR is 3. The 5-4-8 fails a morale check and exceeds ELR. What happens to it? What about a half squad given the same circumstances?

What scenario are we talking about?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

A 5-4-8 is given underlined morale per SSR and the ELR is 3. The 5-4-8 fails a morale check and exceeds ELR. What happens to it? What about a half squad given the same circumstances?

Are the 5-4-8 the only squads/HS in the OB?

Is the ELR = 3 assigned by just the OB, or via SSR?

 

[von Marwitz]

A 5-4-8 is given underlined morale per SSR and the ELR is 3. The 5-4-8 fails a morale check and exceeds ELR. What happens to it? What about a half squad given the same circumstances?

Do I understand you correctly?

In case only the 'underlined Morale" for the 5-4-8 and derivative HS is specified by SSR, while the ELR of 3 is not defined per SSR but just normally specified as in a usual scenario.

If that is the case, then

• The 5-4-8 and derivative HS would have an underlined Morale and thus ELR 5 (per SSR, which overrides normal rules), i.e. ELR failure would result in two broken 2-3-8s.
• Any other unit part of the OoB with a printed underlined Morale would have an ELR of 5 (per A1.23).
• All remaining units of the OoB would have an ELR of 3 (per A19.1).

In case both, the ELR of 3 and the 'underlined Morale' for the 5-4-8s and derivative HS is decreed by SSR, then

• The 5-4-8 and derivative HS would have an underlined Morale and an ELR of 3 but would ELR normally as per A19.132, so ELR failure would result in a broken 4-4-7.
• Any other unit part of the OoB - even with a printed underlined Morale would have an ELR of 3. And for the latter, A19.132 would also kick in.

von Marwitz

 

[Mongo5486]

It is ASL140 Round Two.

 

[jrv]

It is ASL140 Round Two.

There are 4-6-8s and 5-4-8s in the OB in this scenario. The 5-4-8s are given underscored ML by SSR, but are not given ELR three by SSR. The German OB has three ELR. I believe in this circumstance the 5-4-8s have an ELR of five, and if a 5-4-8 squad fails and exceeds ELR it is replaced by two broken halfsquads, etc.

JR

 

[klasmalmstrom]

There are 4-6-8s and 5-4-8s in the OB in this scenario. The 5-4-8s are given underscored ML by SSR, but are not given ELR three by SSR. The German OB has three ELR. I believe in this circumstance the 5-4-8s have an ELR of five, and if a 5-4-8 squad fails and exceeds ELR it is replaced by two broken halfsquads, etc.

But those other 4-6-8/2-4-8 are SS and already have an underscored Morale Factor. So I think they all have an ELR of 3 but are Replaced by two HS when that fail ELR.

 

[jrv]

But those other 4-6-8/2-4-8 are SS and already have an underscored Morale Factor. So I think they all have an ELR of 3 but are Replaced by two HS when that fail ELR.

Ah, I found the q&a:

A19.132 In any scenario where the only MMC in a side’s OB have underlined morale but the OB given ELR is ≤ 4 (and no SSR is in effect), does the OB given ELR apply to the MMC with underlined morale?
A. Yes.
If the answer is yes, does a squad with underlined morale get replaced by two broken Half Squads if it fails a Morale Check by more then the OB given ELR (given no SSR in effect for unit replacement)?
A. Yes. {4}

JR

 

[Brian W]

Q&A? A19.13 says this explicitly.

19.13 REPLACEMENT: An unbroken Personnel unit which fails a MC by an amount > its ELR is immediately Replaced by a broken Personnel unit of lesser quality but the same size. [EXC: A squad with an underscored Morale Factor is Replaced by its two broken HS (even if its ELR has dropped below 5); . . .

[emphasis in original].

The SSR is there to avoid triggering A19.132 by ensuring the entire OB has underlined moral, not to trigger A19.132.

 

[jrv]

Q&A? A19.13 says this explicitly.

[emphasis in original].

The SSR is there to avoid triggering A19.132 by ensuring the entire OB has underlined moral, not to trigger A19.132.

The question isn't what happens to units with underlined ML when they break with an ELR < 5. What is significant is that the q&a says the OB-given ELR and not ELR of five applies to all MMC in the scenario if all MMC in the scenario have underlined morale. One could interpret A19.132 saying an OB-given ELR as not applying to underlined ML MMC in all cases, and then the OB-given ELR would apply to leaders only. A19.132 does not provide an exception for scenarios where all MMC have underlined morale, so to me it seems A19.132 "as written" gives the MMC an ELR of five even then, and this "q&a" should be considered an erratum. To make it clear I have no problem with the q&a/erratum per se.

JR

 

[Brian W]

What is significant is that the q&a says the OB-given ELR and not ELR of five applies to all MMC in the scenario if all MMC in the scenario have underlined morale.

Yes, that's what the rule says too.

 

[jrv]

Yes, that's what the rule says too.

Perhaps I am missing an erratum. I have:

A19.132 Whenever a SSR (not just an OB) specifically assigns an ELR < 4 to units with an underscored Morale Factor, they suffer Unit Replacement normally …. Likewise, with a mixed OB of MMC both with and without an underscored Morale Factor, an ELR < would apply to those MMC with an underscored Moral Factor only by SSR."​

The first sentence does not apply because there is no such SSR. The second sentence does not apply because there is not a mixed force. Since A19.132 adds nothing to our understanding (until you give me the erratum or rule I am missing), we are left with standard underscore Moral Factor rules: them that has underlined Moral Factor have ELR five and aren't replaced (i.e. all the MMC); them that has no underlined Moral Factor (the leaders) have the OB-listed ELR and are replaced.

JR

 

[Hemaelstrom]

I think A19.132 does apply. The first sentence implies that an OB can assign an ELR < 5 to MMCs with underscored Morale Factor (confirmed by q&a). The second sentence clarifies that this is only possible for an OB that does not include MMCs without an underscore. A SSR is required for anything stronger, i.e. for Unit Replacement to apply to MMCs with underscored Morale Factor in an OB in which all MMCs have an underscored Morale Factor, or to assign an ELR < 5 to MMCs with underscored Morale Factor in a mixed OB.