Undeclared warheads

tigersqn

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It appears we were all wrong.

The inspection teams found a series of undeclared warheads in Iraq on Thursday. Speculation is that they received an intelligence tip from a coalition member nation. From what I've read, it would appear that 11 of the warheads were empty and another contained a material which is now being tested.:cool:
 

Cheetah772

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This is THE final proof....

Hello,

I think this is the final proof that Iraq has not been cooperating with us fully. This proves that Saddam is willing to take extreme measures to hide his dangerous arsenals from us. This proves that Saddam is an extremely dangerous man.

Once again, America shall truimph over its enemies. Let us beat the drums of war. Onward to Baghdad, soldiers! Let us oust Saddam once for all!

Hopefully this will put the issue to bed.

Dan
 

Deltapooh

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It doesn't appear to be "the smoking gun" we might be hoping for. The cache was so small, and some estimate they date back to the 1980's and have been of no use for some time. We're gonna need a much larger find to really silence those who oppose war.
 

tigersqn

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Originally posted by Deltapooh
It doesn't appear to be "the smoking gun" we might be hoping for. The cache was so small, and some estimate they date back to the 1980's and have been of no use for some time. We're gonna need a much larger find to really silence those who oppose war.
Nonetheless, the inspection teams admit that these warheads were "undeclared". You can bet the US administration will use this situation to it's max potential
 

Headshot

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although the situation will be exploited, it wont be enough for the UN to do much. besides an Iraqi general said they were rockets, not warheads. Im sure the US would expolit anything tubular with fins and a pointy tip to be a WMD
 

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They are warheads for rockets and they are lined with a special plastic so the chemicals don't ruin the metal.
 

Dr Zaius

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Originally posted by Headshot
Although the situation will be exploited, it wont be enough for the UN to do much.
The UN isn't going to do much no matter what. The reasons for that are many, but we've covered that in another thread.

We seem to have two basic debates going on here. First, does either the UN or the United States have a legal/moral/political justification to use military force against Iraq? Second, if we do have such justification is it a good idea to do so? It is the second question that is more important in the long run. The first question will largely be forgotten if there is military action and it turns out to be beneficial for all.

The second question is far more troubling. Let's say for the sake of argument that the answer to the first question is yes, the US has justification to lead a coalition against Saddam Hussein. It seems obvious that President Bush and his advisors are convinced that military action will work with light casualties, and that the coalition will be able to quickly accomplish all military tasks assigned to it. It is also obvious that they believe the political fallout from all this will do more good than harm. They are convinced that none of the other Arab powers in the region will directly intervene, nor will a US occupation of Iraq bring unending jihad attacks against Americans.

On this I'm far less certain of the answer. I tend to believe that if a unified UN with support from diverse nations all over the world spoke with one voice and led a military campaign against Baghdad, it would be difficult for most of the inhabitants of the region to philosophically side will Saddam, even if he is a brother Arab. The attack would have a political and ethical legitimacy that would virtually guarantee success in the long run. If, on the other hand, the US attacks Iraq alone, over the objections of most of the world, it's difficult to imagine any scenario where victorious US forces wouldn't be seen as conquering imperialists. US forces stationed on Iraqi soil to protect a fledgling government and help with rebuilding might be seen as crusaders. Even if the Iraqi people who have long been brutally suppressed by Saddam greet the Americans with open arms, the princes and sheiks in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, and Iran all have a stake in how that nation develops. They will in one form or another seek to undermine any attempt by America to build a stable democracy in the region. They fear what that would mean for themselves. Religious and anti-Western zealots would have a field day stirring up anti-American feelings in the occupied territory. It doesn't take a slide rule to figure out where that would likely lead.

I'm convinced that the world has the moral and ethical right to act against Saddam. I'm not convinced that it is a good idea to do so. President Bush must come before the world and lay out a far more specific agenda of what he intends to do. Military force must be the last option. If it does come, it must be laid out to the American people with very clear and specific goals and objectives.
 

Deltapooh

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Very well said sir.

Unfortunately, I don't believe Bush can make any case on Iraq that would unite the world. The Coalition in 1990 was created and held together not by some moral or ethical responsibility, but the actions of our enemy; Saddam Hussein. Imagine what would have happened had Saddam said in early January, "Okay, I'll withdraw 50% of my force now, and rest in six months." While the US and Britian would have said that's no good, many other nations would likely have demanded the Coalition waited. Saddam played the evil dictator. He never wavered from his position. As a result even the most moderate members of the Coalition had no case.

Today, Saddam is employing a completely new strategy. The ideal is to divide and thus conquer. Moderate Europe seems willing to give Saddam a chance everytime he ask. Even now as we speak, I'm certain many of our would be allies are telling Bush to wait based on Iraq's statement to comply more. It doesn't matter that the statement in itself is basically an admission they haven't cooperated.

If Blix found 10 tens of Anthrax, many will argue the UN inspections are working. Thus we should give them more time. So it's a loose loose situation. The US has to determine how much we are willing to loose to deal with Saddam. At least for me, I am prepared to ask family and friends to depose Saddam even though that by doing so, I make someone a widow. If the world wants to wait, it can, meantime the US should re-establish itself as a world leader by demonstrating a will and commitment to fulfill our obligation to protect ourselves, and our interest from the threat of tyranny.
 

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Re: This is THE final proof....

Originally posted by Cheetah772
Hello,

I think this is the final proof that Iraq has not been cooperating with us fully. This proves that Saddam is willing to take extreme measures to hide his dangerous arsenals from us. This proves that Saddam is an extremely dangerous man. Once again, America shall truimph over its enemies. Let us beat the drums of war. Onward to Baghdad, soldiers! Let us oust Saddam once for all! Hopefully this will put the issue to bed.

Dan
HHmmmm....eleven empty artillery shells ? Material breech ? I hardly think so. The country's administartion was goosed during the last war and still is pretrty much goosed. Empty (that's empty) shell's lying around means nothing. However, patriotic songs about marching into Baghdad is seriously sad. Why is Iraq the enemy of the US. Can you list what they have done to you ? Do not list anything they have sdone to anyone else, as that means nothing. I mean the US supports Israel in its systematic genocide of the Palestinians. So what has Iraq done to make youir life so bad ? Well......I am waiting.....tick tock....


Nothing....Oh I thought so. So you mean your country is just going to attack a country and massacre it's civilians for no viable reason at all then ? Now that wouldn't be a first for the US would it.
 
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