Unarmed units not attacked in CC -- Melee?

[tipsyweasel]

I had a HS guarding two squads and an 8-0 leader. The HS became broken. In the CCPh, the prisoner 8-0 passed his NTC (the squads did not). So he attacked the broken guard and killed him. 8-0 re-arms. In the next turn, I move a squad into the location, ambush the 8-0 and unarmed units. For some reason, I decided to attack only the 8-0. I do manage to kill him, but then I realize my mistake. I was thinking that my squad would recapture the prisoners, but then I realized that the CC location still contains infantry of both sides. So it becomes a Melee.

Is that right? Is there a melee when one side has an armed MMC and the other side has only unarmed MMCs? A11.15 says "If Infantry of both sides remain..." and it seems like unarmed units are Infantry. Did I miss anything?

Thanks!

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I had a HS guarding two squads and an 8-0 leader. The HS became broken. In the CCPh, the prisoner 8-0 passed his NTC (the squads did not). So he attacked the broken guard and killed him. 8-0 re-arms.

I believe one prisoner HS would also be re-armed, per A20.551 - "or by any other means if no other enemy unit is currently in the same Location"

In the next turn, I move a squad into the location, ambush the 8-0 and unarmed units. For some reason, I decided to attack only the 8-0.

I would ask myself why would your oppponent not choose to attack/defend with 8-0 together with one of the MMC?

I do manage to kill him, but then I realize my mistake. I was thinking that my squad would recapture the prisoners, but then I realized that the CC location still contains infantry of both sides. So it becomes a Melee.

Is that right? Is there a melee when one side has an armed MMC and the other side has only unarmed MMCs? A11.15 says "If Infantry of both sides remain..." and it seems like unarmed units are Infantry. Did I miss anything?

I think it would turn into a Melee in this case - though per above I think there would have been a armed HS in there as well.

But since you got the Ambush, you could always Withdraw after the first round of CC to avoid the Melee.

 

[tipsyweasel]

I believe one prisoner HS would also be re-armed, per A20.551 - "or by any other means if no other enemy unit is currently in the same Location"

Since the unarmed MMCs didn't participate in the attack, do they qualify for rearming? The second sentence of 20.551 says "One attacking Unarmed friendly unit..." So I didn't think they would rearm.

I would ask myself why would your opponent not choose to attack/defend with 8-0 together with one of the MMC?

Good point. Of course, in the actual playing, my squad rolled snake eyes, so it would have benefited me to have more of them stacked together. But it didn't seem like these unarmed units who were not in Melee could participate in the CC. I think my error was that an armed unit only can take possession of unarmed units in the RPh/APh (A20.5), not in other phases. In my mind, the sequence of events was that my unit would recapture them after killing the armed unit.

I think it would turn into a Melee in this case - though per above I think there would have been a armed HS in there as well.

But since you got the Ambush, you could always Withdraw after the first round of CC to avoid the Melee.

If we had done things correctly...

This is definitely one of those situations that arises so infrequently that years from now, I won't remember how to do it right.

Thanks for the great rules insight as always!

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Since the unarmed MMCs didn't participate in the attack, do they qualify for rearming? The second sentence of 20.551 says "One attacking Unarmed friendly unit..." So I didn't think they would rearm.

I think the red text applies. "Other means" in this case being "other units eliminating something in CC".

A20.551:
"One attacking Unarmed friendly unit of equal or smaller size is rearmed immediately for each armed enemy unit it eliminated/captured in CC (or by any other means if no other enemy unit is currently in the same Location), .."

 

[klasmalmstrom]

But it didn't seem like these unarmed units who were not in Melee could participate in the CC.

But when you advanced in the squad on the 8-0 and the unarmed MMC there wasn't a Melee yet. Those Unarmed MMC gets a +1 Ambush drm for being Lax (Inexperienced) btw.

 

[tipsyweasel]

I think the red text applies. "Other means" in this case being "other units eliminating something in CC".

A20.551:
"One attacking Unarmed friendly unit of equal or smaller size is rearmed immediately for each armed enemy unit it eliminated/captured in CC (or by any other means if no other enemy unit is currently in the same Location), .."

I interpreted the red text to mean: other means than eliminate/capture in CC. I thought it still required the Unarmed unit to be attacking and have eliminated an enemy by some means. But I can certainly see your interpretation.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I interpreted the red text to mean: other means than eliminate/capture in CC. I thought it still required the Unarmed unit to be attacking and have eliminated an enemy by some means. But I can certainly see your interpretation.

Granted, it's not crystal clear - but it seems like they should be able to re-arm. Checking for Q&A.......


.................found one.

A20.551
A German 4-6-8 guarding a 1-0-6 prisoner advances into CC with a Russian 4-2-6.
The 4-6-8 is eliminated and no other enemy units exist in the same location. The 1-0-6 was not an
attacker in the CC (as per the first sentence of A20.551) nor did the 4-6-8 surrender (as per the
second sentence). Can the 1-0-6 rearm as per the parenthetical in A20.551, "(or by any other means
if no other enemy unit is currently in the same location)"?
A. Yes. [Letter135]

 

[jcferrell]

Here's a

Granted, it's not crystal clear - but it seems like they should be able to re-arm. Checking for Q&A.......


.................found one.

A20.551
A German 4-6-8 guarding a 1-0-6 prisoner advances into CC with a Russian 4-2-6.
The 4-6-8 is eliminated and no other enemy units exist in the same location. The 1-0-6 was not an
attacker in the CC (as per the first sentence of A20.551) nor did the 4-6-8 surrender (as per the
second sentence). Can the 1-0-6 rearm as per the parenthetical in A20.551, "(or by any other means
if no other enemy unit is currently in the same location)"?
A. Yes. [Letter135]

Here's another Q&A that addresses your question even more directly:

Q. Does the Unarmed Unit/Prisoner need to participate in the attack that eliminates an enemy unit in order to be rearmed?
A. Not if the Location is currently devoid of enemy units.

If an attack from a source other than the Unarmed Unit eliminates an enemy unit is the unarmed unit rearmed? EX: IFT shot from a unit other than the Prisoner KIAs the guard (no other enemy in Location) is the prisoner/unarmed unit rearmed?
A. Yes, but only if there is currently no enemy unit in the Location.