Trump - an 'aberration'?

DWPetros

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Biden is running for POTUS and says that Trump is an 'aberration' for our times. He means that Trump is a kind of mistaken POTUS, elected by honestly mistaken voters who didn't know what they were getting I guess. He'd like people to think that we can all return to where we were before Trump.

I disagree with Biden. What do you think? Is Trump a sign of things to come from and for the GOP, or is he simply a fluke?
 

Paul M. Weir

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Spanky is merely the smoking top turd on the bigoted pile of steaming faeces.

Sure, some that voted for him did out of anger with the crappy deal most citizens face and didn't realise how bad he was going to be. You still have a third/turd of the electorate who will vote for him again precisely because he is such a maggot.
 

Brian W

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One stand out from all the "Never Trump" republicans is how strongly they double down on "conservative values". In other words, what got them here is what they think will solve the problem. It's like the captain of the Titanic trying to plow into another iceberg to fix the first iceberg's holes.
 

Brian W

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I disagree with Biden. What do you think? Is Trump a sign of things to come from and for the GOP, or is he simply a fluke?
I disagree with a lot of what Biden says. However, if he's nominated I will sell my organs to get him elected.

Sadly, I think he's attempt at attracting dissatisfied white non-college degreed voters is doomed to failure. However, women really like the guy. I don't see it, but he has some charisma women like.

 

DWPetros

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I disagree with a lot of what Biden says. However, if he's nominated I will sell my organs to get him elected. Sadly, I think he's attempt at attracting dissatisfied white non-college degreed voters is doomed to failure. However, women really like the guy. I don't see it, but he has some charisma women like.
Biden seems very out of touch with today's major issues, but if it comes down to him or Trump, the choice is clear. If we last long enough, demographics will hopefully and eventually push both types of pols out to the margins.
 

DWPetros

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Spanky is merely the smoking top turd on the bigoted pile of steaming faeces. Sure, some that voted for him did out of anger with the crappy deal most citizens face and didn't realise how bad he was going to be. You still have a third/turd of the electorate who will vote for him again precisely because he is such a maggot.
I couldn't have put it more delicately.

But let me echo your comments with other words. He's unfortunately not an aberration. He's the hairball we've vomited up after years of runaway neoliberalism and inherited racism. There's more of his type to come because of the causes that brought us to this new reality.
 

Sparafucil3

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But let me echo your comments with other words. He's unfortunately not an aberration. He's the hairball we've vomited up after years of runaway neoliberalism and inherited racism. There's more of his type to come because of the causes that brought us to this new reality.
This is cause and effect. Sure, there are people like you say on both sides. But labels and dehumanizing people who don't agree is not going to pull people to the other side. We need to be building big tents, not exclusive tents or tents for one group over here and another group over here. -- jim
 

DWPetros

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Sometimes, there's no pulling people (including ourselves) away from selfish, violent action. This isn't a 'my side / your side' thing. It's a universal, always with us kind of divide; within ourselves and within others.

It's intelligence vs. ignorance thing. A racist vs. non-racist thing. A violence vs. non-violence thing. As ethicists and philosophers would put it - it's a good vs. evil thing and yes, there is good and evil. There isn't equivalency with all things. No - we can't just always get along and shouldn't think we need to. We can objectively, non-emotionally, impersonally, intelligently call out evil for what it is and act against it. Yes, we can talk about the nature of good and evil too in a civil way.
 

Sparafucil3

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Sometimes, there's no pulling people (including ourselves) away from selfish, violent action. This isn't a 'my side / your side' thing. It's a universal, always with us kind of divide; within ourselves and within others.
We'll never please everyone. That too is a fool's errand. However, we have to try. We can't say my way or the highway and expect to build the broad consensus necessary to get people pulling in the same direction. We can't dehumanize our opponents because in doing so we make it impossible for them to join our coalition. -- jim
 

Brian W

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Trump has better approval rating among republicans than Ronald Reagan. He is the party, and no senators or representatives that are up for re-election in 2020 dare to buck him. Thinking otherwise is delusional.

White House asked McGahn to say Trump didn't obstruct justice, but McGahn declined, source says

The White House requested that former White House counsel Don McGahn publicly state that President Donald Trump didn't obstruct justice, but McGahn declined, an administration official told CNN on Friday.

The timing of the White House's request -- which was made to McGahn's attorney William Burck through top White House lawyer Emmet Flood, according to the official -- is unclear.

The official and a separate source familiar with the matter said that McGahn previously told special counsel Robert Mueller's investigators he didn't believe Trump obstructed justice.

The episode speaks to the White House's efforts to portray the President as absolved by the redacted Mueller report since its release last month. The Wall Street Journal first reported the White House's appeal to McGahn.
 

Sparky

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What do you think? Is Trump a sign of things to come from and for the GOP, or is he simply a fluke?
What do I think? Hmmm.. first off Trump is not an aberration. He is not the problem, merely a symptom of it thus when he goes the problem remains. The Republican Party pretty much has driven out its moderate elements, and has become so ideologically bankrupt it can't even keep to its long held mantra of small government and fiscal responsibility. It is a party of fear and division. What did the big money establishment candidates get in 2016.. crushed. Trump tapped into the fear and latent bigotry that still exists in this country. While Trump will be gone soon enough, those voters will remain, the the race moving forward will not be to disavow them or give them the reality check that America is rapidly evolving from a W.A.S.P. country to a ethnically and religiously diverse nation.. but to appeal to them. You've seen that already in the elections since 2016. No desire to appeal to the moderates. .for fear of losing the morons on the right.

What will be interesting to see is what happens to the Democratic Party moving forward. We're already seeing signs that what happened to the Republican Party is starting to happen to the Democratic Party. It's greatest strength, and conversely its greatest weakness is it's diversity and big tent makeup. As the left becomes ascendant in that party, they will likely do exactly what the right did to the moderate elements of the Republican Party.. drive them out and away. Compromise and big tent big picture ideas have been extinct in the Republican Party for almost a decade, I definitely see coming the same from the Democrats as they eventually push out the centrists, the corporate Democrats.
 

Brian W

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they will likely do exactly what the right did to the moderate elements of the Republican Party.. drive them out and away.
I don't see much of a problem with republican moderates fleeing the party--they are a marginal group that will tend to return to the party to vote when the time comes.The only real problem the republican party has is that they have fewer white males to work with as the baby boomer generation dies off. It's hard to be a national white supremacist party when the nation has fewer and fewer white people in it. Meanwhile, the opposite is true for centrist democrats, they are also mostly part of the older generation, so turning farther left actually helps their future.

If republicans had reached out to centrist candidates like BHO or HRC to work with them, this would be a very different conversation. But the base of the party hates moderate democrats almost more than they hate the far left.
 

Sparafucil3

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If republicans had reached out to centrist candidates like BHO or HRC to work with them, this would be a very different conversation. But the base of the party hates moderate democrats almost more than they hate the far left.
If Democrats had reached out to moderate Republicans they might have won a close election last cycle. Doesn't seem like either base has any love for moderates, Republican or otherwise. -- jim
 

Brian W

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But the base of the party hates moderate democrats almost more than they hate the far left.
And the reason for that is that the centrists have been the only people that have gotten anything done in the USA for the last 30 years, and that means they might actually achieve some real civil rights reform in the USA, which is what the base fears most of all. Any other "value" they have is for sale to that one thing, which is why Trump leveraged it against all the other republican politicians, and why they all kowtow to him. Anyone that breaks that white line would be out in a primary to a more openly bigotted candidate. You cannot go too far to the right in the republican party.
 

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The joke that the Democrats don't appeal to enough moderate Republicans... maybe if they lost the popular vote, but Clinton won a substantial popular victory of 3,000,000+,, it was the distribution of the votes between the states that was the problem.

Yet no criticism of the Repbublicans who haven't achieved 50% of the vote since 1984 and have "won" two elections this century while losing the popular vote, resulting in two terrible presidents foisted upon us... the first who wrecked the balanced budget, and the second who exploded the deficit.

The only reason people vote Republican is because they hate Democrats. It can't be because of fiscal responsibility, or of doing good for the average working person.
 

Sparky

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I don't see much of a problem with republican moderates fleeing the party--they are a marginal group that will tend to return to the party to vote when the time comes.The only real problem the republican party has is that they have fewer white males to work with as the baby boomer generation dies off. It's hard to be a national white supremacist party when the nation has fewer and fewer white people in it. Meanwhile, the opposite is true for centrist democrats, they are also mostly part of the older generation, so turning farther left actually helps their future.

If republicans had reached out to centrist candidates like BHO or HRC to work with them, this would be a very different conversation. But the base of the party hates moderate democrats almost more than they hate the far left.
hahaha.. no not o you perhaps Brian.. or those that still believe in America and the things and ideals that make it great....but it is a big problem for the Republican party. See the 2018 midterms where the party got crushed nationally. Who comprises most of those moderates in the Republican Party. Not Joe 6 Pack.. nor Holy Rollar Rob.. but the educated, surburbanites.. ..women... they are the ones fleeing what the party has become. Trump is just the face of it.. but it has been process underway for some years. Look up the decline in numbers of those who identify themselves as Republicans over the last decade. Trump only accelerated a process that was underway for some time.
 

Sparafucil3

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The joke that the Democrats don't appeal to enough moderate Republicans... maybe if they lost the popular vote, but Clinton won a substantial popular victory of 3,000,000+,, it was the distribution of the votes between the states that was the problem.
You can try and spin it however you want to salve the wound. Democrats lost key Democratic bastion states like PA, OH, MI and WI. The base wasn't exactly super supportive either.

The only reason people vote Republican is because they hate Democrats. It can't be because of fiscal responsibility, or of doing good for the average working person.
No, it could be they hate Republican's less. It could be the lies the other side told were more compelling than lies Democrats told. As for "good for the average working person" exactly what promises did Hillary offer people in coal country? In the rust belt? Trump hasn't made good on anything he promised but a least he took the time to pretend he understood what they were facing rather than telling them their problems weren't as difficult as the problems others were facing. -- jim
 

Brian W

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See the 2018 midterms where the party got crushed nationally.
The pickups in the house were actually typical of out of power party in by-year elections. Also, you realize that republicans gained seats in the senate, increasing their majority?

Crushed? I wish, but not yet.

If republican "moderates" were fleeing the party, the polling would reflect it, and it doesn't. Or perhaps its more realistic to say that the republican party has become an extremist party over the last 50 years without anything but a sliver of moderates and the loud talking fox "elites" that dropped the facade when Trump took over the party. Ever since they took over the south because of desegregation, they've been headed for Trump like flies for shit.
 

Sparky

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I think it is a mistake Brian to look at that election as just another midterm. The importance is in the statistics and what they implied. To start.. it had the highest turnout for an off year election in over a century. It nearly rivaled.. in fact topped some Presidential elections thus that makes the results significant. A dress rehersesal or preview of what could or may be in store for 2020. Both sides were highly energized and mobilized to vote. If the Democrats win nationally by 7 points in 2020 as they did in 2018... it won't simply be a win and the White House.. but pretty close to an electoral landslide..

of course it is too early to draw inflections from 2018 to 2020.. but Trump continuing to .. umm.. be himself is making it hard to not think he has a snowballs chance in hell to win in 2020.. he needs those independents.. moderates to win.. or the resurccted political corpse of HRC to rise from the dead and eat the brains of the primary electorate and have her give Trump a rematch. Though... I think if she got one... she'd actually win this time haha.

Yes Brian the polling and the result DO reflect that fleeing... check it out.. and note that the GOP lost educated moderate suburbs in .. yep.. fucking UTAH.. Oklahoma.. and Kansas... that was not a normal midterm.. it was a blue wave and it was fueled in part by energized Democrats.. but also moderate Republicans finally giving up and leaving the party. Temporary? Don't bet on it.. not a damn thing has been done by the GOP to appeal to them to bring them back.. much less by Trump himself... and there is the historical lesson of Reagan Democrat... ie Trump voter in the rust belt 30 years later. Once a party losses a demographic.. it is often not temporary.. but often for decades or longer..
 
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