Trench in open ground set up question

Markdv5208

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MAKING sure I'm doing this right. I am doing the German setup for BUNKER BUSTING from the recent ONSLAUGHT TO ORSHA 2. I am putting a trench in a open ground hex, and putting a 75L PAK in said same trench in LOS of his set up area BUT NOT placing the gun on board until his setup is done AND placing the gun under concealment once he does (b/c he may not set up anyone with LOS to the hex. Legal?
 

Binchois

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Correct. I don't think the trench matters here, as your AT Gun is setting up Emplaced. See A12.34:

A12.34 ....An Emplaced Gun may also always use HIP if not in Concealment Terrain, provided it sets up out of the LOS of all enemy ground units — but must be placed onboard under a "?" as soon as a Good Order enemy ground unit has a LOS to it regardless of range, e.g., at the start of the first RPh.​
And to be clear - since you are setting up first - the Trench would not be set up on board either, since Fortifications set up in OG can still use HIP (A12.33). As soon as the enemy has LOS to the trench, it would be placed on board and the Gun will appear beneath a concealment counter. Depending upon the enemy set up, this could happen at the start of the first RPh.
 
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Eagle4ty

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Yup, both the Trench and the gun, assuming it's emplaced (normally), set up HIP and remain so until an opposing side's G.O. & unbroken unit has a LOS to the location. As Binchois stated the Trench would then be placed on-board as well as a concealed Gun.
 

Russ Isaia

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Note you got a slightly different answer on FB (assuming that was you). There it was suggested the range from the viewing unit might matter, that is, within or beyond 16 hexes. The language quoted indicates it does not. Same for the fortification, A12.33.
 

Markdv5208

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Note you got a slightly different answer on FB (assuming that was you). There it was suggested the range from the viewing unit might matter, that is, within or beyond 16 hexes. The language quoted indicates it does not. Same for the fortification, A12.33.
Yes it was me

SSR means that I HAVE to place the trenches on board regardless of LOS (the only fortifications I get to HIP are mines...)
 

Matt Book

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Question along the same lines, can a unit set up concealed in LOS of KEU in a trench or foxhole if the entrenchment sets up not in concealment terrain? Concealed units can move using non-assault movement in trenches without losing concealment in open ground, can you set up concealed in them if the trench is in open ground?
 

klasmalmstrom

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Question along the same lines, can a unit set up concealed in LOS of KEU in a trench or foxhole if the entrenchment sets up not in concealment terrain?
Depends on the set up instructions. You can't place an OB-given "?" on such a unit as it's not in Concealment Terrain. But if the set up instructions says - "set up concealed" I believe you can.
 
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