Translated ASLRB

[hongkongwargamer]

The question about potential players and barriers to ASL entry are exactly what I'm questioning. I have no idea..................If a Chinese ASLRB was available................would suddenly 5,000 more people be playing? I'm pretty sure I would NOT want to play one of these people who can't speak English. However, if they have rudimentary English and know the English acronyms...................well at least they could compete in a tournament game. maybe?

A lot of Chinese speaking players have great command of English and are already playing folks from around the world and some are playing at (real AND VASL) tournaments. There are translations of SK and translations of (at least) Chapter A. For reasons I listed above, I am not sure if the cost-benefit is there. No real data here but I think the preference is for the English rulebook.

Look around you, there are a hell lot more Chinese speakers who are good with English than the other way around. Just because they don’t participate on GS doesn’t mean they don’t exist (they are certainly reading all this).

For newbies in Asia Pac, I think the barriers to entry are shipping costs and the geographical dispersal of players. VASL is a godsend with the latter. The other barrier is common to any population: ASL is for people who has more time and more money (for cardboard?) than they know what to do with. Folks with places to go and people to see don‘t tend to flock to ASL.

In HK, there‘s a group that plays pretty much every week and a group that focused on CGs, a lot of the players played upwards of 30 years (and got the IIFT memorized). Players in mainland China are more dispersed, so they play each other inside (peer to peer connection) and outside of China on VASL. There’s a regular player group in Beijing. There’s a full scale Japanese translation of the ASLRB and good sided communities in Japan. There’s a budding group of players in Taiwan (players in China and Taiwan tends to be young - 25 to 35). There are dispersed communities all over Korea, Singapore, Philippines, Indonesia, Cambodia. I get hits from India on my blog but I can’t ascertain who they are.

Heck, there are even players in Australia and New Zealand, I think!

PS if the shipping cost issue can be resolved for Asia Pac (logistically or via 100% electronic distribution), a whole next layer of consumers beneath the present layer of crazy fanatics can be skimmed without having to localize the product.

 

[Tuomo]

Given the pervasive turbulence surrounding US-China relations, and how it's hard to hate someone you're sharing a table (much less a planet) with, I'd think that some international outreach would be a Good Thing.

Hell, we can all hate the dice together.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Given the pervasive turbulence surrounding US-China relations, and how it's hard to hate someone you're sharing a table (much less a planet) with, I'd think that some international outreach would be a Good Thing.

Hell, we can all hate the dice together.

Until someone grabs your Sniper counter and swallow it.

 

[Tuomo]

Until someone grabs your Sniper counter and swallow it.

They DO THAT there? BARBARIANS!

 

[nekengren2]

A lot of Chinese speaking players have great command of English and are already playing folks from around the world and some are playing at (real AND VASL) tournaments. There are translations of SK and translations of (at least) Chapter A. For reasons I listed above, I am not sure if the cost-benefit is there. No real data here but I think the preference is for the English rulebook.

Look around you, there are a hell lot more Chinese speakers who are good with English than the other way around. Just because they don’t participate on GS doesn’t mean they don’t exist (they are certainly reading all this).

For newbies in Asia Pac, I think the barriers to entry are shipping costs and the geographical dispersal of players. VASL is a godsend with the latter. The other barrier is common to any population: ASL is for people who has more time and more money (for cardboard?) than they know what to do with. Folks with places to go and people to see don‘t tend to flock to ASL.

In HK, there‘s a group that plays pretty much every week and a group that focused on CGs, a lot of the players played upwards of 30 years (and got the IIFT memorized). Players in mainland China are more dispersed, so they play each other inside (peer to peer connection) and outside of China on VASL. There’s a regular player group in Beijing. There’s a full scale Japanese translation of the ASLRB and good sided communities in Japan. There’s a budding group of players in Taiwan (players in China and Taiwan tends to be young - 25 to 35). There are dispersed communities all over Korea, Singapore, Philippines, Indonesia, Cambodia. I get hits from India on my blog but I can’t ascertain who they are.

Heck, there are even players in Australia and New Zealand, I think!

PS if the shipping cost issue can be resolved for Asia Pac (logistically or via 100% electronic distribution), a whole next layer of consumers beneath the present layer of crazy fanatics can be skimmed without having to localize the product.

A Japanese ASLRB. dang. That would be a sight.

When I change Google to search for other languages [Settings - Language] I never get anything about Advanced Squad Leader. hmmm.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

They DO THAT there? BARBARIANS!

Only if someone calls you 3 days later to say he'd found your Sniper counter

 

[hongkongwargamer]

A Japanese ASLRB. dang. That would be a sight.

When I change Google to search for other languages [Settings - Language] I never get anything about Advanced Squad Leader. hmmm.

Funny. I just went onto Google (English) and typed in "Advanced Squad Leader Beijing" .. and found this

2018 Asl Advanced Squad Leader Personalized Us Leader Smc Shirt

2018 Asl Advanced Squad Leader Personalized Us Leader Smc Shirt

www.darryday.com

 

[von Marwitz]

I’m very impressed by people who learned ASL dispite English not being their native tongue, amazing. I can barely stand to read or understand certain rules passages with all the double talk. Good grief ! Yes, translations are a great idea.

Having been through this myself without - for many years - somebody teaching me the game and without any opponent I can tell you this:

English not being the native language ain't the trouble.

ASLish not being the native language is.

In the beginning, when I was reading a paragraph it went like this:

You read a sentence or two. You stumble about some sort of ASLish term or abbreviation. You go to the Index to find out what this could be. If listed in the index, you'd go to the appropriate rules section.

There you would go through the same when trying to figure out the expression that you did not know in the original rule. ASL came down on you like a cascading misery.

When you had looked up the ASL lingo necessary for the first paragraph, you might have forgotten what you started reading. Horribly tedious business...

Yet, I do not think that translating the ASLRB does make any sense. It takes basically years to familiarize oneself to the English ASL abbreviations. If you took the pains to learn ( the necessarily arbitrary) German translations instead, then it would also take you years. Finally, you'd find out that you are alone in 'speaking' German arbitrary ASL lingo. Lost years if you ask me.

von Marwitz

 

[von Marwitz]

There's an established (and growing) German community, too. But when I have a rule question, I go to Gamesquad.

Right.

At least SK 1 has been translated into German. Maybe more. I remember having seen the translation but it is difficult to translate even SK rules into sensible Germans and come up with a German ASL-lingo that would have any chance to last.

IMHO we need one common language for the game - which happens to be 'English&English ASLish'.

The rules can be explained in any other language, just as Hongkongwargamer has laid out for the Chinese. But I think we are well advised to keep them written in one single language, i.e. 'English&English ASLish'.

von Marwitz

 

[Tuomo]

We already have "Nahverteidigungswaffe". Can you imagine what that'll look like when the Germans get a hold of it????

 

[von Marwitz]

Given the pervasive turbulence surrounding US-China relations, and how it's hard to hate someone you're sharing a table (much less a planet) with, I'd think that some international outreach would be a Good Thing.

Hell, we can all hate the dice together.

In fact, this is one aspect that has got me thinking more than once:

At GRENADIER tournament in the Eiffel region not far from the Hürtgen Forest battles, players from Germany, France, the UK, the US and numerous other countries meet annually to play a wargame together.

A couple of decades earlier, their grandparents would have attempted to kill each other in war.

I am by far not saying that wargaming prevents wars. But what happens at tournaments is a prime example that people of many nations can get along very well in the absence of assholes that tell them or indoctrinate them to hate each other up to the willingness to kill.

Beware of anyone who follows such ways, regardless his ethincism, nationality, religion or political conviction.

von Marwitz

 

[Actionjick]

Only if someone calls you 3 days later to say he'd found your Sniper counter

Three days!?!? Sounds like they need more roughage in their diet. Explains why the Sniper counter dissapeared.
Gives a whole new meaning to Sniper checks.

 

[von Marwitz]

We already have "Nahverteidigungswaffe". Can you imagine what that'll look like when the Germans get a hold of it????

Probably, we'd turn it into a 'Supernahverteidigungswunderwaffe' and your guys would be dead giving the Germans the win.

von Marwitz

 

[Actionjick]

In fact, this is one aspect that has got me thinking more than once:

At GRENADIER tournament in the Eiffel region not far from the Hürtgen Forest battles, players from Germany, France, the UK, the US and numerous other countries meet annually to play a wargame together.

A couple of decades earlier, their grandparents would have attempted to kill each other in war.

I am by far not saying that wargaming prevents wars. But what happens at tournaments is a prime example that people of many nations can get along very well in the absence of assholes that tell them or indoctrinate them to hate each other up to the willingness to kill.

Beware of anyone who follows such ways, regardless his ethincism, nationality, religion or political conviction.

von Marwitz

There was a movie out years ago, If it's Tuesday it Must be Belgium, American tourists in Europe. The only scene I remember was ex GI showing his wife battlefield he fought on. Coming in their direction was German ex soldier doing the same with his wife. Always struck me as funny and poignant at the same time.

Btw, not recommending the movie. IIRC rather silly.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

If you want to be an airline pilot, you learn English. There are some things for which English is mandatory, ASL may as well be one of them.

Having said that, though, it is possible, at great cost in time, not to mention the need for a deep understanding of the rules. I couldn't see MMP having the time or resources to devote to this. Nor a third party, especially since the rules in English are so finicky there would bound to be discrepancies in any translated copy that would fundamentally change how the game was played.

If someone did manage to do it (it wouldn't be impossible, just consume a lot of resources for little gain) the acronyms would likely need to change. Some of the ASL lingo is based on English military jargon. These can sometimes be translatable though use of an inter-language dictionary specifically geared to military lingo might be in order

German-English Military Dictionary

www.allworldwars.com

So to do it, you ideally need someone who is

a) fluent in both languages
b) experienced with the ASL system and understands how to parse some of the more convoluted sections
c) someone with military experience or at the least a working knowledge of military jargon in both languages

Such a project is probably not a one-person job. Regardless it would take months. The only way to make it worthwhile is if it could guarantee thousands of sales of the foreign language ASLRB to recoup the cost of publication. Doubtful that would happen. How many Germans, for example, would consider a translated copy a poor second cousin to the original source of truth, and simply stick with the English (I think most kids in Europe learn English as a second language anyway).

The downside is the risk of altering understanding of fundamental rules due to mistranslation. That alone may make the effort not worthwhile.

 

[Philippe D.]

Back in the '90s when I was learning the game, there were unofficial French translations around. I never tried them, as I already felt that I could read English well enough - as von Marwitz said, the difficulty is not really in the English, it's in the ASLese.

With a translated rulebook, every time there's a difficult rules question and it boils down to which exact words are used, you'd have to go back to the original. Clearly, not worth it, IMO.

There are still people in the French ASL community trying to distribute a translated version, but I haven't seen anyone actually use it.

 

[Actionjick]

Back in the '90s when I was learning the game, there were unofficial French translations around. I never tried them, as I already felt that I could read English well enough - as von Marwitz said, the difficulty is not really in the English, it's in the ASLese.

With a translated rulebook, every time there's a difficult rules question and it boils down to which exact words are used, you'd have to go back to the original. Clearly, not worth it, IMO.

There are still people in the French ASL community trying to distribute a translated version, but I haven't seen anyone actually use it.

It does seem easier and more practical to just learn English. ?

Fish related this story.
Bitd some playtesters were dismayed when the module was released that contained their personal SMC only to find their name misspelled.

Don Greenwood's response when asked if the spelling could be corrected:
It would be easier just to change your name!
Baker became Barker, Sisler became Sisker.

Sometimes the best way to overcome an obstacle is not to.

 

[Paul John]

every time there's a difficult rules question and it boils down to which exact words are used

This is the key point. Translation is never exact and would be as likely to lead to confusion as to remove it. Maybe more so.

 

[bendizoid]

Bob, just listened to part of your interview with the 2 Half Squad's ( episode 47 ). Some pretty good stuff. Well done!

Lots of good English. Lol. Just keeping on threads topic.

I’m episode 67, starts at 1:09 or so, my prediction was correct: Holstrom won.
Episode 47 is Fish.

What would the RB look like with some translator software? Start there.

 

[Actionjick]

I’m episode 67, starts at 1:09 or so, my prediction was correct: Holstrom won.
Episode 47 is Fish.

Au contrare mon amis. You are also in episode 47 being interviewed at Albany. Our interview is right after yours.?

Ours starts around mid 40s.

Your interview was not done by the 2 Half Squads. Can't recall who did it.