Too Much ASL, not enough space

[von Marwitz]

One last consideration: we are all getting older. When our time comes, you're leaving behind a mess for someone else to clean up. I promised my kids I wouldn't do that to them after I have watched other parents do it to their kids. In the end, it is actually quite liberating once you get past the initial shock. To quote Tyler Durden: the things you own end up owning you. -- jim

There is something to it. But you can do it in different ways:

Of course, you could throw away things, give them away or sell them while you still live despite they mean something to you. This may make it easier for those that remain when you have passed - but maybe you are not happy with it while you live.

Then, you could prepare things in a different way, getting things in order and leave notes:

"Son, you know that all things ASL meant much to me in my days but I also know that you don't play it and it will be too much of a fuss for you to sell it off on eBay when I am no more. Here is a rough list of the stuff. I'd be happy to pass it on to people who would appreciate it rather than to have it thrown away. You could offer it for free at GameSquad forum or..."

or

"Daughter, you know I have always reveled in my books and library. I am aware that you are not interested at all in tanks & guns. And many of my books might not be worth to keep albeit they served me well and made me feel 'at home' til the end. The reason why I have kept them until then. There are some books that were special to me, though, and here is why... If you want to keep some of my books out of interest, take any you want. Do you want to keep some of them for purposes of remembrance, then pick some of that list."

This is a lot of work - admitted. But it would be a good compromise as you are surrounded with the things that mean something to you while you live, yet makes it easier for those who remain when you have passed.

von Marwitz

 

[Robin Reeve]

I think that I will give instructions to offer my gear to an ASL gaming group, if such thing exists, after my death: they will be able to use it or to give it to a new, motivated player.
Anyway, I believe that my last wills mustn't bind my children the least.
I always are bewildered when atheists who don't believe in afterlife are obsessive about all the arrangements about their tomb, possessions, etc. : if there is nothing afterwards, and you won't even "see" what comes after you, why burden people with your whims (some of which can be costly) ?
And a believer shouldn't bother either.
It is up to the family to see if they want to have a place to keep memory of their deceased - typically, as a pastor I often have explained to the family that the farewell ceremony is for the living who mourn and not for the deceased and that they should decide what they prefer as the best way to live the funerals...

 

[von Marwitz]

Unless I am missing some factual data, there are not a lot of younger, newer players.
At least, not enough to catch up with the passing away of the "first generation".

I am not so sure.

In the past, I have been amazed how fast the Starter Kits sold out. Some of them have been reprinted several times. And MMP will have learned to estimate the demand somewhat to avoid running out of stock of these too fast, so they will likely adjust the numbers reprinted to meet demand.

Look at this data from the ASL Scenario Archive as of 4. Feb. 2021:



There is not a single ASL scenario among the 'most played Scenarios of last year', except 'The Guards Counterattack', which is a beginner scenario.

This means that - at minimum - the Starter Kits are extremely popular. You might expect that an ASL community which has built up over the decades might still 'outplay' the SKlers in the number of most played/popular scenarios.

And even within the SK scenarios, it is the S1 to S10 which see the highest number of playings. This might be interpreted that there is a continuous influx of new SK players as those 'sticking' to SK will move on to higher SK scenario numbers.

Yet even higher numbered SK scenarios feature in the most-played list. This can mean two things: First, it could mean that players stick to SK and do not consider ASL. It could also mean that people like SK a lot and at least some of them will move on to ASL. Probably, both assumptions are true.


Now look at the 'All time' most played:



This is what really astonished me:
These are all 'beginner' scenarios. But 5 out of 10 in here are Starter Kit scenarios. The SK playings with 628 outnumber the ASL playings with 582, despite SK being much much younger than ASL. Again, this gives us a clue that SK seems to be very popular.

And once more, I am pretty sure that a constant fraction of SK players will move on to ASL to provide 'new blood'.


Finally, let's have a look at ROAR:

I have looked at the TOP 50 Most played 2019 (no more current data available).

Rank 11: Retaking Vierville (S1), 27 playings
Rank 26: Commando Schenke (126), 15 playings
Rank 27: Fighting Withdrawal (1), 15 playings
Rank 28: Simple Equation (S3), 15 playings
Rank 32: War of the Rats (S2), 14 playings
Rank 46: The Puma Prowls (T2), 11 playings

In the TOP 50 of 2019, more than 10% are beginner scenarios which might have us deduce that there is a new influx of SK and ASL players.
Comparing 'TOP 50 ROAR 2019' with 'ASL Scenario Archive - Last Year (as of 4. Feb. 2021)', we see that the reported numbers are smaller on ROAR. This will either mean, that since 2019 more players are getting into SK play and/or that more people use the 'ASL Scenario Archive' and the role of 'ROAR' is diminishing. It might also tell us, that the 'older' and more established players stick to ROAR, as the most played scenarios are much more ASL than on the 'ASL Scenario Archive'.

Still, even looking at ROAR of 2019, there is not an insignificant number of 'beginner scenarios' played which hints at a new influx of new players. Of course, not all of these will stick with ASLSK and/or ASL, but some will.


So as a bottom line, I believe there might be more influx to ASL that we might be aware of. Not even to mention what's going on in China and areas that do simply not 'show' in a forum like GameSquad on which we are often prone to base our assumptions.


von Marwitz

 

[Robin Reeve]

I would believe that the SK scenarios are played a lot because older players initiate newcomers to the hobby - I must have played Retaking Vierville at least ten times and War of the Rats about the same, to introduce new people to the game.
And quite a lot of grognards are doing the same.
The fact that the games are recorded indicates that people aware of ROAR did it, which is quite improbable for someone playing the SK out of the box.
How many of those newcomers have persevered - either within the SK line of products, or with full ASL?
Many don't.
Note also that the SK made older people come back to ASL: I have red many testimonies of people who dabbled with full ASL in the eighties and the nineties, leaving the game for a decade or two (if not three) and coming back by the means of the SKs - which is good news, but not a sign of new generations coming to replace the ageing ones.

So those numbers are just numbers, and too many factors are involved to allow any definite conclusion.

When wee see teenagers enter the forums and the FB pages in numbers, I will be more optimistic about the future of our hobby.
Most of us started SL or ASL before we were twenty...
That phenomenon is near to inexistent.

 

[Gordon]

I think that I will give instructions to offer my gear to an ASL gaming group, if such thing exists, after my death: they will be able to use it or to give it to a new, motivated player.
Anyway, I believe that my last wills mustn't bind my children the least.
I always are bewildered when atheists who don't believe in afterlife are obsessive about all the arrangements about their tomb, possessions, etc. : if there is nothing afterwards, and you won't even "see" what comes after you, why burden people with your whims (some of which can be costly) ?
And a believer shouldn't bother either.
It is up to the family to see if they want to have a place to keep memory of their deceased - typically, as a pastor I often have explained to the family that the farewell ceremony is for the living who mourn and not for the deceased and that they should decide what they prefer as the best way to live the funerals...

I agree with your POV that any funeral/memorial is for the living and not the deceased. I have no expectations as to what happens to my corpse and have never understood cemeteries, mausoleums, tombs, etc. Seems like a waste. Cremation seemed like a more sane approach, although with climate change, maybe composting (which has become a thing) might be the best option. I will "leave" my kit to my son who played for a while (and who hopefully may end up playing again in the future) with the recommendation that if he is no longer interested in it to donate it to a gaming group.

 

[Sparafucil3]

This is a lot of work - admitted. But it would be a good compromise as you are surrounded with the things that mean something to you while you live, yet makes it easier for those who remain when you have passed.

I have plenty of things I love around me remaining. -- jim

 

[JoeArthur]

Went through the same thing. Through Gamesquad I managed to avoid eBay and a bloke in Ireland now has enough to play the game (mounted boards, Beyond Valor and some other stuff) for a total cost of £150. Lucky man

Try selling it / giving it away to someone who will use it. Package it so that the basics are there to get someone hooked.

I now avoid mixing the HASL counters up with the core module counters. When I no longer need it, it will be easier to sell. Whether it is me or someone else doing the selling.

ASL is such a great game that it will probably limp on, but the price of stuff will fall as extra supply (dead man's kit) comes on the market. I would not advise looking at your ASL stuff as an investment.

Whether MMP will be able to keep going in the face of falling demand...................

 

[Actionjick]

One last consideration: we are all getting older. When our time comes, you're leaving behind a mess for someone else to clean up. I promised my kids I wouldn't do that to them after I have watched other parents do it to their kids. In the end, it is actually quite liberating once you get past the initial shock. To quote Tyler Durden: the things you own end up owning you. -- jim

So too right Jim. Started cleaning the attic, throwing out stuff that hasn't been touched in 30 years or putting it aside for a yard sale in the Spring. Too much crap. This thread really got me thinking and re-motivated to finish the job.
Fortunately have little ASL kit to worry about having loaned it all to a coworker in the late 90s who " lost " it when he moved. I do have a couple boxes of SL/ASL playtest papers and Oktoberfest related materials and correspondence that I have been wondering what to do with. I thought about contacting Mark Nixon to see what he did with his but I think that the best thing to do would be to just toss it. I've been reluctant in the past to do that as it's not really taking up much room but it's about time to get on with it.

 

[Steed]

Lol!
Are we not mice? I mean men.

Nice analysis but hard to pry the hoarder from his hoard. You have to ask why he bought it all in the first place?

 

[Actionjick]

View attachment 16418

Lol!

 

[Scott_Blanton]

Jim,
Do you scan/store all your scenarios as individual files or do you group them by pack in the file?

 

[Tooz]

Before you throw anything away, find those new to ASL who are willing to at least pay for the shipping of your extras. I will be facing this dilemma down the road myself. My biggest problem has already been solved. My local library will accept my books as donations which will enlarge their section on WWII ten fold!

 

[Actionjick]

Before you throw anything away, find those new to ASL who are willing to at least pay for the shipping of your extras. I will be facing this dilemma down the road myself. My biggest problem has already been solved. My local library will accept my books as donations which will enlarge their section on WWII ten fold!

Good man and good advice!

 

[Actionjick]

View attachment 16418

Loyal sidekick abuse, very disturbing !

 

[sdennis]

I assume which ever one of my brother or I goes first the other one has to deal with the leftover ASL collection... which means it's most likely his problem since I'm 6 years older

 

[TopT]

ASL is such a great game that it will probably limp on, but the price of stuff will fall as extra supply (dead man's kit) comes on the market. I would not advise looking at your ASL stuff as an investment.

Whether MMP will be able to keep going in the face of falling demand...................

You are putting the cart way in front of the horse. We are not going to die en masse and MMP has some time before they have to make a decision of pulling the plug on ASL. Heck, every ASL/ ASLSK pre-order easily hits its number.

As far as cleaning out stuff and organizing. You cannot organize anything without tossing stuff out (including giving away stuff). Otherwise you are just shuffling things around. My wife and I are doing the same, as some have suggested, and emptying our attic and guaranteed 80% will go in the trash.

 

[Ganjulama]

The process has started. Tossed a bunch of scenario books. I'm off next week and I'm about 3 years behind punching counters, sorting, scanning, etc... As I go through it all for that I'll toss relentlessly.

I contacted some local gamers, even new players, and they had no interest. I'm not going to go to the trouble of offering up nationally and shipping it. I just don't have that kind of time.

No local game stores are interested.

 

[Actionjick]

The process has started. Tossed a bunch of scenario books. I'm off next week and I'm about 3 years behind punching counters, sorting, scanning, etc... As I go through it all for that I'll toss relentlessly.

I contacted some local gamers, even new players, and they had no interest. I'm not going to go to the trouble of offering up nationally and shipping it. I just don't have that kind of time.

No local game stores are interested.

Boy scouts, YMCA, VFW, boys and girls clubs are other possibilities.

 

[Sparafucil3]

Jim,
Do you scan/store all your scenarios as individual files or do you group them by pack in the file?

Originally, I did them as individuals because I didn't have a scanner with a page feeder. Now they are all in one file. -- jim

 

[von Marwitz]

How many of those newcomers have persevered - either within the SK line of products, or with full ASL?
Many don't.

Agreed. Likely the minority will. But if one in ten does, that would be a decent percentage.
It would be interesting to know how large the percentage of those 'who stick' were back in the days.

Note also that the SK made older people come back to ASL: I have red many testimonies of people who dabbled with full ASL in the eighties and the nineties, leaving the game for a decade or two (if not three) and coming back by the means of the SKs - which is good news, but not a sign of new generations coming to replace the ageing ones.

The most busy times in life might be one's 30s and 40s: Career, familiy, build a house, etc. This explains, why some come back after a long hiatus. That said there are also numerous testimonies that go like this: "After having dabbled with SK, I decided to move on to ASL." I.e. without prior/original exposure to ASL.

So those numbers are just numbers, and too many factors are involved to allow any definite conclusion.

Certainly. But they do allow for assumptions.

When wee see teenagers enter the forums and the FB pages in numbers, I will be more optimistic about the future of our hobby.

That won't happen. In my time, the ASL boxes could be found in where young people would hang out - games stores for example. These are rarer than they used to be and young people hang out elsewhere.

Most of us started SL or ASL before we were twenty...
That phenomenon is near to inexistent.

Is that so? Not true for me nor for most players that I personally know. But then, I am not of 'the old breed' here but rather in the middle, I reckon.

von Marwitz