Today, 1st August 1944...

Swiftandsure

Robin Reeve
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Was the beginning of the Warsaw uprising.
Resistance was crushed while the Soviet forces lingered not far from the city.

Does someone have news of the now old project of a HASL on the subject ?
 
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Tuomo

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Not sure what you mean by "now old project".

Operation Tempest. Torsten Jacobsen is the designer. I'm doing the map, based on Torsten's impressively detailed research. LFT is the publisher. The western half of the map is finished and ready for playtest. The eastern half is in progress.

A lot of thought went into how to depict an Old World European City, in terms of the density and the way that city blocks tended to have solid exteriors, such that breaking into the interior of a block was a big deal. It should play differently than other city fights (hopefully while being interesting and playable as well).

There is a lot of Rubble. There is a huge swath of the Jewish Cemetary. There are High Walls, one of which goes around the Ghetto.

Doesn't seem right to wax excited about this like we normally do about designs in development. The attitude seems to be one of wanting to do a good job so as to pay respects.
 

Swiftandsure

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Thanks for the good news.
I wrote old, because people were speaking of a Warsaw uprise HASL fifteen years ago, perhaps.
I wasn't aware of the project you just gave information about.
Sorry if I irritated you.
 

Jacometti

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Thanks for the good news.
I wrote old, because people were speaking of a Warsaw uprise HASL fifteen years ago, perhaps.
I wasn't aware of the project you just gave information about.
Sorry if I irritated you.
In the Death to Fascism Pack, we have included one Warsaw Rising scenario called AK'44. There is a lot of rubble. And really bad guys.

It is also a complete remake of our FrF scenario "Warsaw in Flames".
 

Swiftandsure

Robin Reeve
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No irritation, Robin, it's all good.
Thanks.
I believe that some PAs (including a public call to put me on Ignore) and heated debates in rather recent times make me too wary about people getting mad at me.
 

MajorDomo

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Thanks.
I believe that some PAs (including a public call to put me on Ignore) and heated debates in rather recent times make me too wary about people getting mad at me.
Aw, we love you man!

You may be a hot steaming bag of water obstacle at times, but you are our steaming bag.

Rich
 
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Swiftandsure

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I guess that I am missing the meaning of the last posts.
 

Paul M. Weir

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While Robin had a very few surprising ... outbursts, in general I have found him to be definitely one of the better types here. I said surprising because when he did lash out I thought it uncharacteristic of him. We all have our moments, both good and bad and I feel allowance must be made for occasional lapses, none of us are perfect. Consistent trolls and arseholes on the other hand ...
 

Swiftandsure

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I thought that you were in Japan.
I did grasp that you were joking.
I just wanted to precise who was Snufkin (I recently had a pm from a forum member who asked me what my avatar represented).
 

Swiftandsure

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The reasons behind the Soviet sudden stop are still debated - and they certainly were multiple.
I didn't elaborate on the causes, just saying that the Soviets lingered. So don't read too much in what I posted.
Whatever they were, Stalin had a wonderful political opportunity to let non communist insurgents be crushed by the Germans.
I would guess that such a perspective didn't make the Soviets overly zealous to help the insurgents.
 

Paul M. Weir

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You might want to do some research before trotting out that old idea. I think you will find over extended supply lines and a counter attack by two panzer corps had a lot more to do with it than the word "lingered" implies.
I have to totally agree with that. The traditional view of Stalin letting the Germans having their wicked way with Warsaw was also a quite useful tale for the Cold War.

The reality was that the Soviets managed to go a fair bit further than expected with Operation Bagration (22-Jun to 19-Aug-44) and it's follow on operations. In about 60 days they advanced about 700 km (Mogilev to Warsaw 733 km by road), in the order of 12 km/day. Not only that they had to fight, defeat, pocket and mop up German forces, they had to supply their advance over increasing distances. Though the Soviet Army was quite lean in supply terms, they still had to supply ammunition, fuel and food, in that order. You can also imagine the destruction of roads and railways done by the Germans. By the time they hit the Vistula they run out of steam. Remember that the same happened at about the same time in France and the Soviet Army didn't have the motorised supply that the US and British Armies had. Like the German Army the Soviet Army relied mainly on rail and horse supply. The Germans punched back at the end of Bagration and the Soviets were fortunate not to be driven back from the Vistula.

In France, after the breakout had stalled the rest of the year was spent doing limited, local offensives with the intent of continuing the main offensive into Germany, but not before 1945. The Soviets usually took a couple of months to prepare a further offensive in a particular area. The Soviets were simply incapable of taking Warsaw when the got near it. After a few weeks to a month they might have made made a better effort but they also had 4th SS Pz Kps to deal with who only retreated at the end of August.

Stalin was not particularly fond of the Poles, having been defeated by them in the Soviet-Polish war in the early 20s. However he was also unable to join up with the Slovak uprising which he was quite favourable to. So a combination of animus to the AK Poles and simple difficulty of assisting meant that he decided not to make a major effort. I have little doubt that if the Soviet Army could have taken Warsaw on the bounce and swept beyond it would have done so, but it simply wasn't able. A typical cynical Stalin approach of making the best of a bad situation by letting his enemies bleed each other.
 
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