To The Last Man fix??

[FanaticTW]

What is the accepted German OB adjustment for Deluxe scenario A -- To the Last Man???

I thought it was 2x548 a 9-1 and a mmg

 

[Carln0130]

If Jim Taylor swings by, ask him. He plays this every year at ASLOK with three other players. I believe Wes, and Fish are two of the suspects, not sure on the third.

 

[Jazz]

Playing against 2 Russians and they cannot talk.

 

[jrv]

If Jim Taylor swings by, ask him. He plays this every year at ASLOK with three other players. I believe Wes, and Fish are two of the suspects, not sure on the third.

Not Fish. Wes Vaugh, Pete Mudge, Tommy Cvetinovich & Jim Taylor. They have evolved "To the Last Man" over the years to have very little to do with the original scenario. Each year the previous year's loser introduces a new balance component.

JR

 

[Carln0130]

Not Fish. Wes Vaugh, Pete Mudge, Tommy Cvetinovich & Jim Taylor. They have evolved "To the Last Man" over the years to have very little to do with the original scenario. Each year the previous year's loser introduces a new balance component.

JR

Ah, wrong name. Talked to Taylor on Skype last night. He said he would pop in and give some input.

 

[chris_olden]

What is the accepted German OB adjustment for Deluxe scenario A -- To the Last Man???

I thought it was 2x548 a 9-1 and a mmg

It's either x2 5-4-8s or x2 6-5-8s(+ the 9-1 and the MMG) It's been many years since I last played it, and I can't remember which MMC is the balance.

 

[Honza]

It's either x2 5-4-8s or x2 6-5-8s(+ the 9-1 and the MMG) It's been many years since I last played it, and I can't remember which MMC is the balance.

It's not going to make a huge difference....

 

[Justiciar]

It's not going to make a huge difference....

Double the order of battle then...MUST...be the answer...

 

[chris_olden]

It's not going to make a huge difference....

Double the order of battle then...MUST...be the answer...

Actually, it does make a difference.
It gives the German player a bit more flexibility in their set-up and defense.
Straight up 15-17 more FP(at full range), 2 more squads with PF capability, another -1 leadership mod.
(As well as Spraying Fire capability)
The German player needs to play a solid game to take the scenario out to the end, win or lose. I suggest reading Mark Nixon's great analysis on the scenario from The General.

 

[Jazz]

Actually, it does make a difference.
It gives the German player a bit more flexibility in their set-up and defense.
Straight up 15-17 more FP(at full range), 2 more squads with PF capability, another -1 leadership mod.
(As well as Spraying Fire capability)
The German player needs to play a solid game to take the scenario out to the end, win or lose. I suggest reading Mark Nixon's great analysis on the scenario from The General.

I still think playing with two Russians vs one German is the best balance. I've never seen the German come close to winning when its one on one. Two on one record is about 75 - 25 pro German record. Again, based on my personal experience with the scenario.

 

[chris_olden]

I still think playing with two Russians vs one German is the best balance. I've never seen the German come close to winning when its one on one. Two on one record is about 75 - 25 pro German record. Again, based on my personal experience with the scenario.

Jazz, I've never played it as a 2-1 version. And I've only won once as the Germans.(only because my dice were meltdown hot at the beginning of the game vs. Sam(I am) Belcher.)
It was a massacre. The 3-4 other times I played it, it was the inevitable, but fun, slow crush.

 

[Honza]

Actually, it does make a difference.
It gives the German player a bit more flexibility in their set-up and defense.
Straight up 15-17 more FP(at full range), 2 more squads with PF capability, another -1 leadership mod.
(As well as Spraying Fire capability)
The German player needs to play a solid game to take the scenario out to the end, win or lose. I suggest reading Mark Nixon's great analysis on the scenario from The General.

What I meant was it was not much difference between two 548 squads or two 658 squads.

 

[Jazz]

Jazz, I've never played it as a 2-1 version. And I've only won once as the Germans.(only because my dice were meltdown hot at the beginning of the game vs. Sam(I am) Belcher.)
It was a massacre. The 3-4 other times I played it, it was the inevitable, but fun, slow crush.

That has been my experience one on one. An inevitable German loss, but you never had more fun losing.

I have actually played it or seen it played two on one quite a few times (passable 3 player scenario) and it is amazing the difference in result. Especially if the two Russians cannot talk amongst themselves. A skilled German can defeat each half of the Russian force in sequence. The two halves take different times to develop their attacks.

The only time I recall a two Russian player win was when one of the Russians had played before and lost in a three player event.

Nixon throws out some pretty kinky stuff in his analysis.

 

[jrv]

This is the official ASLOK balance provisions as of this year (http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/aslok-xxxi-official-td-aar.128565/page-7#post-1844139):

The Scenario favors the Russian Attacker vs the German Defender. Over the years, after every German loss, the Germans have received balance provisions of Adding a FT for the Mudge 7-0 leader only, down grading the Russian IS-2m tanks to the lower armor cousins, a Japanese 4-4-8 and DC from the German Embassy, extra SS squads, plus the original balance of all German Squads are SS and NO Ammunition Shortages.

I like the Japanese squad.

JR

 

[chris_olden]

That has been my experience one on one. An inevitable German loss, but you never had more fun losing.

I have actually played it or seen it played two on one quite a few times (passable 3 player scenario) and it is amazing the difference in result. Especially if the two Russians cannot talk amongst themselves. A skilled German can defeat each half of the Russian force in sequence. The two halves take different times to develop their attacks.

The only time I recall a two Russian player win was when one of the Russians had played before and lost in a three player event.

Nixon throws out some pretty kinky stuff in his analysis.

His analysis is "kinky" indeed. Brilliant stuff.

 

[chris_olden]

What I meant was it was not much difference between two 548 squads or two 658 squads.

Well, it can, considering that x2 6-5-8 squads would bump you up one more IFT column.
Especially on Spraying fire attacks.(which a defender will make big use of in this scenario)

 

[James Taylor]

#1 Get rid of ammo shortage.
#2 All German squads are SS.
#3 Add 6-5-8 to OB.
#4 Add 5-4-8 to OB.
#5 Add a FT to German OB; Only the Mudge 7-0 counter can use the FT.
#6 Allow Germans to deploy an additional squad.
#7 Replace 1 IS-2m in each Russian Group with an IS-2.
#8 Add a Japanese 448 Squad and DC (Budapest Embassy Guard) to German OB.
#9 The Russians have invoked NQ.
#10 Increase the Russian VC by 1 point, i.e. they have to have 1 more point to win.

Last year Wes and I were at #4 or #5, (I cannot remember if we had the FT or not---- it didn't do anything if we had it).

We lasted to the end of T7.

The extra deployment was something I talked about at the end of our game last year--- it doesn't seem like much, but when considered with the way the German HIP is it actually could help them.

I think up thru #9 it still favors the Russians, but it is close.

Up thru #10 it may swing to Germans a bit. That 1 point can be very big with a solid German defense.
JT

 

[Honza]

That is quite a big list just to balance one scenario!

 

[Eagle4ty]

Now if one could only think of a way to balance out "The Agony of Doom" (but that may beyond even the most stout hearted and diligent).

 

[AZslim]

That is quite a big list just to balance one scenario!

It's probably one of the most play tested scenarios on the planet, I believe these changes. I bet the putting theem on an ABS type of thing would be interesting.