Thoughts on Scenario E Hill 621?

Vic Provost

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Never played 621. Once i knew it was a "fictional" scenario i lost interest in it.
Please no flame war about fiction in ASL scenarios at this point. When people play 621 for good ASL fun, i´m happy with that.








On the other hand... nothing beats a good flame war from time to time. Black counters, anyone?
Yeah, through the historical accuracy out and concentrate on the historical feel and fun you have with it and it is a winner every time I played it, no matter the side or I won or lost, it was always a Blast!
 

Gunner Scott

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Many of the old SL and CoI scenario source material came from Paul Carrols books, They'er coming, Scorched Earth ect ect. So there is a grain of truth in those scenarios but not by alot. Paul Carrol: The Germans were kicking ass all the back too Berlin lol

Yeah, through the historical accuracy out and concentrate on the historical feel and fun you have with it and it is a winner every time I played it, no matter the side or I won or lost, it was always a Blast!
 

Blofeld

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Many of the old SL and CoI scenario source material came from Paul Carrols books, They'er coming, Scorched Earth ect ect. So there is a grain of truth in those scenarios but not by alot. Paul Carrol: The Germans were kicking ass all the back too Berlin lol
Paul Carell was a 100% Nazi and working from 1940 on as the chief press spokesman for foreign minister Joachim von Ribbentrop. What do you expect. 🤣
 

Jwil2020

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Many of the old SL and CoI scenario source material came from Paul Carrols books, They'er coming, Scorched Earth ect ect. So there is a grain of truth in those scenarios but not by alot. Paul Carrol: The Germans were kicking ass all the back too Berlin lol
If true, that might explain how they ended up giving the American First Line infantry a GO ML no better than a Russian conscript. :rolleyes:
 

Robin Reeve

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If true, that might explain how they ended up giving the American First Line infantry a GO ML no better than a Russian conscript. :rolleyes:
In SL, Americans didn't suffer from DM.
The rationale behind the low morale was that US troops broke easily but were quickly back with a vengeance.
Nothing to do with any pro-German bias - IIRC, Carrell mostly wrote about the East Front.
 

Old Noob

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Invasion: They're Coming! was Paul Carell's look at the Normandy campaign.
 

Jwil2020

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In SL, Americans didn't suffer from DM.
The rationale behind the low morale was that US troops broke easily but were quickly back with a vengeance.
Nothing to do with any pro-German bias - IIRC, Carrell mostly wrote about the East Front.
Yes. I know they justified the low ML with the premise that American soldiers broke quickly, but rallied quickly. Although I was never quite sure what historical references they used to support the second part of that premise. The immunity to DM only helped on the first rally phase. By the second RPh, that broken non-Dmd American infantry unit actually had less of a chance to rally than its counterpart broken non-DMd German (or Russian for that matter). Perhaps that is why DG took the DM immunity away in GIA and instead increased the American broken side ML.

Anyway, it's all water under the bridge now. It is a testament to John Hill's stroke of genius that there are still people who play the original classic.
 

Gunner Scott

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Dude, you are missing out on one if not the best scenarios ever made for ASL. You should really give it a try just for the aesthetics of seeing a full board line of Russian squads marching forward in some ACW like formation.

scott
Never liked it. I Always thought it was too much stuff on to small an area.
 

FrankH.

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Dude, you are missing out on one if not the best scenarios ever made for ASL. You should really give it a try just for the aesthetics of seeing a full board line of Russian squads marching forward in some ACW like formation.

scott
I just (finally) pulled my copy of this scenario. 48 Russian squads with only 3 leaders vs. 8 German squads and 2 leaders. All of these Germans must take a TC and if failing start the game broken - so we are taking roughly 48 vs. 5 or 6 unbroken squads at start!

Due to the paucity of leaders (common for these ancient scenarios), both sides have to be extremely careful where these leaders are placed. That's the way it should be. Newer scenarios miss this aspect. Some of this eagle4ty mentioned upthread.

Even if this is a fictional situation, I wish there were more non-fictional ones like it.

The initial German OBA is a wild card, I think - it's a radio.

The only thing I don't like about the scenario is that the turn 2 German tank reinforcements can come in either the north or the south edge. German option. That is too much prescience for the Germans, for me. Should be instead a random board edge, determined at time of setup for entry. I have a similar concern over the turn 5 reinforcements.
 

Futbol

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Hill 621 will be included in the "Fiction" Mini at ASLOK this year......
Wait, we have a new selection, J223 Latecomers has been added as well.......
curious what are some of the fictional scenarios?
 

PresterJohn

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I just (finally) pulled my copy of this scenario. 48 Russian squads with only 3 leaders vs. 8 German squads and 2 leaders. All of these Germans must take a TC and if failing start the game broken - so we are taking roughly 48 vs. 5 or 6 unbroken squads at start!

Due to the paucity of leaders (common for these ancient scenarios), both sides have to be extremely careful where these leaders are placed. That's the way it should be. Newer scenarios miss this aspect. Some of this eagle4ty mentioned upthread.

Even if this is a fictional situation, I wish there were more non-fictional ones like it.

The initial German OBA is a wild card, I think - it's a radio.

The only thing I don't like about the scenario is that the turn 2 German tank reinforcements can come in either the north or the south edge. German option. That is too much prescience for the Germans, for me. Should be instead a random board edge, determined at time of setup for entry. I have a similar concern over the turn 5 reinforcements.
In my opinion that degree of game analysis (prescience?) used for the reinforcement entry is part of the German balance, keeping the Russian player on his toes.

If you try and make it realistic you lose the "game" and are just left with "war".
 

Blofeld

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Wait! Does this mean all wargames in my collection are fictional and not REAL wargames?! :eek:
 
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