The Ultimate WW2 movie thread

DID YOU LIKE WINDTALKERS

  • YES

    Votes: 5 27.8%
  • NO

    Votes: 13 72.2%

  • Total voters
    18

eagle101

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Messages
91
Reaction score
0
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Country
llUnited States
Top Notch Film

Good movie, but I think it was a little slow in the beginning. Other than that a top notch film!!

Thanks
:toast: :toast:
 

FelixAlicea

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Location
Pennsylvania
Country
llUnited States
Originally posted by Lance Williams
Pearl Harbor had three battle scenes totalling about one hour of a three hour movie that were well done. The rest of it was just pathetic. The acting is marginal except for a few characters (Tom Sizemore to name one) and the historical liberties are simply to many to overlook.

They couldn't even get the spelling of Mitchell Field right. Probably the biggest historic gaff was sending Ben Affleck's character off to fight with the British. It simply would NEVER have happened. It was illegal due to the Neutrality Acts. Those who did fight for the British prior to the US's entry into WW II resigned their commissions and had to dodge FBI agents at the border just to enter Canada on their way to England. Most had faked Canadian passports. They LOST their citizenship so there was no way he could just return to US military service. Even the Flying Tigers (that were covertly supported by the US government) had great difficulty returning to their original units.

Thank God I only bought the DVD and didn't have to sit through it in a theater.
The movie was supposed to be a blockbuster like "Titanic". A few Americans did fly for the RAF but what about the pilots that flew for the "Flying Tigers" in China under Chang Kai-Sheik. And some Americans did fight in the Spanish Civil War. If you have some insight, let me know. I'm very curious on the subject. Thanks.:thumb:
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
413
Reaction score
1
Location
Fairfax, Va
Originally posted by FelixAlicea
The movie was supposed to be a blockbuster like "Titanic". A few Americans did fly for the RAF but what about the pilots that flew for the "Flying Tigers" in China under Chang Kai-Sheik. And some Americans did fight in the Spanish Civil War. If you have some insight, let me know. I'm very curious on the subject. Thanks.:thumb:
The American's that flew for the RAF prior to the US entering WW II did so without the consent of the US government. In the current issue of WW II History there is an article about these Americans and the obstacles they faced just to leave the US and enter Canada. It's such a grey area that historians are unsure to this day how many Americans participated in the Battle of Britain since they had to lie about their nationality to gain entry to the country.

The Flying Tigers are a slightly different situation. They had the covert backing of the US government (it actively recruited the pilots and ground crews). They still had to resign their commissions and had no guarantees of returning to old units upon return. They traveled to China with faked documents so there was no paper trail tying them to the US government. After the US entered WW II the government tried to force the Flying Tigers into joining the Air Corps (no matter what their previous branch of service had been). Those that refused were threatened with being drafted into the infantry and had difficult times reentering the US. Only a handfull (ie, "Pappy" Boyington) were able to return to their previous branch of service.

I'm not sure what the laws were regarding the Spanish Civil War. I do know that the Neutrality Acts had not yet been enacted. I do remember that a big issue was that most Americans who fought were on the side with a Communist faction.
 

FelixAlicea

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Location
Pennsylvania
Country
llUnited States
Originally posted by Lance Williams
The American's that flew for the RAF prior to the US entering WW II did so without the consent of the US government. In the current issue of WW II History there is an article about these Americans and the obstacles they faced just to leave the US and enter Canada. It's such a grey area that historians are unsure to this day how many Americans participated in the Battle of Britain since they had to lie about their nationality to gain entry to the country.

The Flying Tigers are a slightly different situation. They had the covert backing of the US government (it actively recruited the pilots and ground crews). They still had to resign their commissions and had no guarantees of returning to old units upon return. They traveled to China with faked documents so there was no paper trail tying them to the US government. After the US entered WW II the government tried to force the Flying Tigers into joining the Air Corps (no matter what their previous branch of service had been). Those that refused were threatened with being drafted into the infantry and had difficult times reentering the US. Only a handfull (ie, "Pappy" Boyington) were able to return to their previous branch of service.

I'm not sure what the laws were regarding the Spanish Civil War. I do know that the Neutrality Acts had not yet been enacted. I do remember that a big issue was that most Americans who fought were on the side with a Communist faction.
Thanks Lance, I was not familiar with the background in those areas. Thanks again.:thumb:
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
413
Reaction score
1
Location
Fairfax, Va
Re: No More cage war movies

Originally posted by panzerboy
Cage needs to just stay away from the Frontlines. He didn't fit the role of a US Marine. Hey Nick stay with your own type of filming , War films aren't it!!!!
:drool: :nonono: :nonono:
At least he didn't play the mandolin in this one.
 

eagle101

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Messages
91
Reaction score
0
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Country
llUnited States
Thats right!!!!

OH YES thats right he played that strange Italian soldier in CAPTAIN CORRLEIS MANDOLEIN!!!:crazy: :nuts: :rolleyes:
 

SGT Long

Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
84
Reaction score
0
Location
St Louis county,MN
Country
llUnited States
That reminds me of that scene when the Jap base is overun and the one Japanese soldier (medic) is clutching a wounded comrade/patient to his chest while either a) crying as the shooting was happening or b) holding out a knife to hold back the americans in a sad and pathetic attempt (damn my bad memory damn it to heck!)
In any event,it was a surprise to see a break from the fanatical-Banazi-fight-to the death-last samuari sterotype weve seen in films for the last 60 years.
 

Andrey

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2004
Messages
108
Reaction score
0
Location
Omsk, Russia
Country
llRussia
Originally posted by Lance Williams
Probably the biggest historic gaff was sending Ben Affleck's character off to fight with the British. It simply would NEVER have happened. It was illegal due to the Neutrality Acts. Those who did fight for the British prior to the US's entry into WW II resigned their commissions and had to dodge FBI agents at the border just to enter Canada on their way to England. Most had faked Canadian passports. They LOST their citizenship so there was no way he could just return to US military service. Even the Flying Tigers (that were covertly supported by the US government) had great difficulty returning to their original units.

In May of 1941 Royal Navy had battle against German battleship "Bismarck" in North Atlantic. In result "Bismarck" was sunk.

Once Royal Navy lost contact with running away "Bismarck" and Germans had chance to escape. But British long range flying boat "Catalina" (was produced in US) found "Bismarck" and gave this informnation for British ships.

One of pilots of that "Catalina" was American officer. And he flew in that mission in US military uniform...
 

Andrey

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2004
Messages
108
Reaction score
0
Location
Omsk, Russia
Country
llRussia
Originally posted by Nemesis
The problems I have with Pearl Harbour:

- The Japanese were there to bomb the US Navy. Yet they seemed to have enough bombs to spare in order to bomb a.... Clearing in front of a hospital?
Not all planes had orders to bomb ships. Some planes had orders to operate against US airtfields and other objects. Attacks against US airfields, like in PH, were true. (As I know many US pilots died when they tried to take off under fire of Japan planes.)May be, Japanese planes bombed other lamd objects.

- The Japanese pilots of the time were top-notch. Yet they were shot down like flies in the end. Even with small-arms fire from the ground! WTF?
PH is based on REAL story of two US pilots - Welch and Tailor (I can make mistake in names). These pilots took off and shot down many Japanese planes (as I remember 7 or nearly). Of course, they shot down mainly Japanese bombers not "zero" like it was shown in PH. But it was very like to true.

I do not want to say that PH is realistic movie.

But I want to say that IMO is is based on popular book of Word "Day of infame".

Yes, many things are wrong in PH. But if to speak about realistic level so it is not worse that "Iron Cross" which is considered greatest movie in West.
 

Nemesis

Recruit
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Location
Albany, NY
Country
llUnited States
Originally posted by Andrey Not all planes had orders to bomb ships. Some planes had orders to operate against US airtfields and other objects. Attacks against US airfields, like in PH, were true. (As I know many US pilots died when they tried to take off under fire of Japan planes.)May be, Japanese planes bombed other lamd objects.
I can understand bombing airfields, hangars and the like, but I cannot understand why they decided to bomb a clearing in front of a hospita. Of course, in the movie it was there because it looked more cool as opposed if the woman (what was her name) simply walked to the hospital, instead of running there with bombs blowing up in the background.

PH is based on REAL story of two US pilots - Welch and Tailor (I can make mistake in names). These pilots took off and shot down many Japanese planes (as I remember 7 or nearly). Of course, they shot down mainly Japanese bombers not "zero" like it was shown in PH. But it was very like to true.
Sure there were American pilots who managed to get airborne and cause some damage to the Japanese. But I _REALLY_ doubt it happened anywhere near as it happened in the movie. In the movie, the Japanese pilots were downright crappy.
 

Andrey

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2004
Messages
108
Reaction score
0
Location
Omsk, Russia
Country
llRussia
Originally posted by Nemesis
I can understand bombing airfields, hangars and the like, but I cannot understand why they decided to bomb a clearing in front of a hospita. Of course, in the movie it was there because it looked more cool as opposed if the woman (what was her name) simply walked to the hospital, instead of running there with bombs blowing up in the background.
If to speak about bombing of hospital...

1. As I remember there were only 1-2 bombs and machine-gun fire in this scene.

2. Japanese and German pilots often bombed non-military targets during WWII (including hospitals, columns of refugees, civil ships and cars) so I do not understand what was strange in this case.

Sure there were American pilots who managed to get airborne and cause some damage to the Japanese. But I _REALLY_ doubt it happened anywhere near as it happened in the movie. In the movie, the Japanese pilots were downright crappy.
To shoot down 7 planes with best experienced Japanese crews is not "some damage to the Japanese" for pair of young pilots. It was great success. As I know Welch and Tailor were awarded.

Yes, P-40 was not so good plane for fighting against "Zero" like it was shown in movie. "Zero" was best fighter in that time in Pacific Ocean, best Japanese pilots-aces took part in PH attack and movie showed wrong image of air combat.

But I suppose that US pilot-ace with large experience of air combats over Britain (like it was shown in PH, REAL Welch and Tailor were not experienced pilots but could shoot down 7 planes for pair of hours) could fight well against Japanese fighters with some luck.
 

Nemesis

Recruit
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Location
Albany, NY
Country
llUnited States
Originally posted by Andrey To shoot down 7 planes with best experienced Japanese crews is not "some damage to the Japanese" for pair of young pilots. It was great success. As I know Welch and Tailor were awarded.
Of course it was a great triumph for the two pilots involved and awarding them for their actions was the right thing to do. I'm the last person to dispute that. But in the end, it did not change the outcome of the attack on way or the other. Losing 7 planes that way was in no shape or form a great loss to the attacking Japanese force. IIRC, the Japanese attacked with some 350 planes. Loss of 7 was not significant in the end.
 

Andrey

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2004
Messages
108
Reaction score
0
Location
Omsk, Russia
Country
llRussia
Originally posted by Nemesis
Of course it was a great triumph for the two pilots involved and awarding them for their actions was the right thing to do. I'm the last person to dispute that. But in the end, it did not change the outcome of the attack on way or the other. Losing 7 planes that way was in no shape or form a great loss to the attacking Japanese force. IIRC, the Japanese attacked with some 350 planes. Loss of 7 was not significant in the end.
Movie Pearl-Harbor shows correctly Japanese attack of Pearl-Harbour. Movie PH doesn't show that it was success of US, it shows that it was catastrophe for US.

But it shows also true story of personal success of two lucky American fighter-pilots, Walch and Tailor. Moviemakers changed their names and added love story but they showed common truth very correctly. It was great success for these two pilots in conditions of complete catastrophe for others.

What was wrong in this image?

Did you read "Day of infame" of Walter Lord?

I do not like other episode of PH, when fighter-pilots became pilots of B-25 bombers. It was complete nonsence.
 

Nemesis

Recruit
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Location
Albany, NY
Country
llUnited States
Originally posted by Andrey But it shows also true story of personal success of two lucky American fighter-pilots, Walch and Tailor. Moviemakers changed their names and added love story but they showed common truth very correctly. It was great success for these two pilots in conditions of complete catastrophe for others.

What was wrong in this image?
While it is true that two pilots did get airborne and they were able to cause some damage to the Japanese, I seriously doubt it happened anywhere near like it did in the movie (with the Japanese flying in to each other, being shot-down by small arms fire etc. etc.).

Had it been more realistic dogfighting (like in Tora Tora Tora for example) it would have been alot better. But instead of doing it like that, they turned it in to a "let's shoot some Japanese"-shooting-gallery.
 

Andrey

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2004
Messages
108
Reaction score
0
Location
Omsk, Russia
Country
llRussia
Originally posted by Nemesis
While it is true that two pilots did get airborne and they were able to cause some damage to the Japanese, I seriously doubt it happened anywhere near like it did in the movie (with the Japanese flying in to each other, being shot-down by small arms fire etc. etc.).

Had it been more realistic dogfighting (like in Tora Tora Tora for example) it would have been alot better. But instead of doing it like that, they turned it in to a "let's shoot some Japanese"-shooting-gallery.
I agree with you in his case.

But I repeat that PH is based on real story.

And it is very possible that in concrete conditions of sudden air attack it was not so difficult for Walch and Tailor to shoot down Japanese planes.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
413
Reaction score
1
Location
Fairfax, Va
High Definition WW II Movies

For those of you who have satellite high definition TV, HD Net Movies has been running "The Battle of the Bulge" and "None But The Brave" this week. Its shown in its theatrical release format of 2.35 to 1. The quality is stunning, but it still can't make Spanish tanks in German markings look any better.
 

RichardS

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Messages
256
Reaction score
0
Location
Lost in the wilds of Georgia
Country
llUnited States
Re: High Definition WW II Movies

Originally posted by Lance Williams
For those of you who have satellite high definition TV, HD Net Movies has been running "The Battle of the Bulge" and "None But The Brave" this week. Its shown in its theatrical release format of 2.35 to 1. The quality is stunning, but it still can't make Spanish tanks in German marking look any better.
I remember going to see Battle of the Bulge in the drive in. Battle of the Bulge is NOT good history; but it is a fun movie to sit back and have popcorn and the beverage of your choice with. I hope they returned the Panzer Leid scene/song back to the movie.

Cheers!
:toast:

:horse:
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
1,181
Reaction score
0
Location
Staten Island, NY
I don't remember ever seeing the movie, and not seeing that scene. Great scene. great song. Still remember the tune, all these years after seeing it the first time.
 

Patrocles

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
1,794
Reaction score
6
Location
Chicago, IL
Originally posted by Wolfe Tone
The action scenes were good/excellent. Esp. in the long grass. Just how much fear would be pumping through those men up on point.

The Japs could be soon as human too, not all fanatical fighters but men who broke as well.

The Colonel who keeps on pressing his men up the hill was a ringer for my old boss from San Diego! Talked like him, looked like him, acted like him! :crazy:
ditto! I found the film a bit haunting and more memorable than SPR. The cinematography was both beautiful and shocking (e.g. the advance across the long grass).
 
Top