The troubling trend of two pages for one scenario…

Justiciar

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Anyway, Evan is a Tanker... I am a Marine ;)
Best,
X
Just by way of an indirect JAG type "case" this has nothing to do with service branch affinity. ASL has room for all branches...even civilians....and even if the paper work exceeds 1 page, and neither of you can escape that fact. ;)
 

Swiftandsure

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Being dogmatic about "one page = good design, two pages = bad design" cumulates a series of faults:
  • it is deeply stupid
  • it is judgemental
  • it is outright wrong
  • it is insulting
  • it sterilizes creativity
Religion has its bigots.
The ASL community too.
Turning a question of personal preferences into a question of right or wrong reduces any discussion to a moralistic dogfight.
Disgusting.
 

von Marwitz

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I think we shouldn't inflate this beyond what the critics of two-page scenarios suggested. Which was that in their opinion editors should always strive to keep scenarios on one page.

I don't see any need for implying that disgusting moralistic bigots were at work.

Calm it down, guys...

von Marwitz
 

Swiftandsure

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I clearly see that calling fine designers such as those of MMP, BFF and LFT bad, just because they sometimes use two pages for a scenario as sliding into a self-righteous, judgemental and narrow-minded stance.
Which in other domains is what defines bigotry.
It certainly is very far from allowing a respectful and intelligent debate.
It tries to impose an absurd norm in a domain where creativity should have full space.
If one doesn't design two page scenarios, one is not "better" - nor "worse" for that matter.
No more than limiting the number of turns to eight or only designing ETO scenarios is good or bad.
One simply has a preference, and that is not an objective reality nor a moral issue.
 

Sparafucil3

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Being dogmatic about "one page = good design, two pages = bad design" cumulates a series of faults:
  • it is deeply stupid
  • it is judgemental
  • it is outright wrong
  • it is insulting
  • it sterilizes creativity
Religion has its bigots.
The ASL community too.
Turning a question of personal preferences into a question of right or wrong reduces any discussion to a moralistic dogfight.
Disgusting.
And I am sure you don't consider you're being so judgmental to be the opposite side of the same coin. Let me assure you, it is just as dogmatic, at least in presentation. Are you the source of what is and isn't canon? -- jim
 

RobZagnut

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I clearly see that calling fine designers such as those of MMP, BFF and LFT bad, just because they sometimes use two pages for a scenario as sliding into a self-righteous, judgemental and narrow-minded stance.
Which in other domains is what defines bigotry.
It certainly is very far from allowing a respectful and intelligent debate.
It tries to impose an absurd norm in a domain where creativity should have full space.
If one doesn't design two page scenarios, one is not "better" - nor "worse" for that matter.
No more than limiting the number of turns to eight or only designing ETO scenarios is good or bad.
One simply has a preference, and that is not an objective reality nor a moral issue.
Over reaction a little bit, maybe?

You took a nice little discussion that was going well from ‘down here’ to ‘wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
up there.’ Now you can be upset all weekend over nothing. Congratulations.

I prefer one page scenarios. Show me where I said anyone was bad or I tried to impose a norm. I highly recommend hydrocodone... Or a chill pill

I also prefer my scenarios without Bocage, OBA and Night. But Caves, Slopes, Beaches and Desert are cool beans.

Sue me.
 

Swiftandsure

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And I am sure you don't consider you're being so judgmental to be the opposite side of the same coin. Let me assure you, it is just as dogmatic, at least in presentation. Are you the source of what is and isn't canon? -- jim
I get your point.
I draw your attention, nevertheless, that I am describing a behaviour and adressing ideas, not calling the person "bad".
That is a great difference between debating ideas and judging people.
So you don't care when a designer calls the others incompetent and bad, but you certainly wag your finger at me because I do...
 

Swiftandsure

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I prefer one page scenarios. Show me where I said anyone was bad or I tried to impose a norm. I highly recommend hydrocodone... Or a chill pill
I also prefer my scenarios without Bocage, OBA and Night. But Caves, Slopes, Beaches and Desert are cool beans.

Sue me.
It is not about you.
You opened the debate in a proper way and, as long as it is about preferrences, let the debate go on.
 

RobZagnut

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It is not about you.
You opened the debate in a proper way and, as long as it is about preferrences, let the debate go on.
It doesn’t matter. People are expressing their opinions on the number of scenario pages they prefer. For a GAME! It’s not a world crisis.
 

RobZagnut

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I thought so. Kudos to MMP and Bill.
I forgot about those. They were really nice. All the evil things I thought about Bill are taken back...

Festung Budapest and the Valor of the Guards scenarios are still the best sets of scenarios you can play on a historical map. Looking forward to trying the Corregidor historical map scenarios. And the Seoul historical map scenarios next year.
 

sswann

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To save space the historical perspective could be shorted as...

They Attacked (optional: in daylight or in the dark).

To save space the Aftermath could be shortened as ...

"They Lost!" or "They Won!"

After all, it is a game for ENJOYMENT.
 

Sparafucil3

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So you don't care when a designer calls the others incompetent and bad, but you certainly wag your finger at me because I do...
I don't care when either of you do, which is why I didn't reply to Evan's post. Hypocrisy however, that drives me nuts. That I have a hard time not replying to. -- jim
 

Swiftandsure

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I have indeed been the pot calling the kettle black.
Sorry for that.
I was irritated to see guys like the LFT designers - as well as MMP and BFF - judged as bad or incompetent because they happen to use two pages for some of their designs.
I shouldn't have reacted as strongly.

We all have our preferences, and I would not oppose the SP guys to the other producers on the basis of the fact that they only produce one card scenarios. SP do an excellent job, with their special touch too.
 

von Marwitz

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I have indeed been the pot calling the kettle black.
Sorry for that.
I was irritated to see guys like the LFT designers - as well as MMP and BFF - judged as bad or incompetent because they happen to use two pages for some of their designs.
I shouldn't have reacted as strongly.

We all have our preferences, and I would not oppose the SP guys to the other producers on the basis of the fact that they only produce one card scenarios. SP do an excellent job, with their special touch too.
Bytimes Swiftandsure seems to get roused by small things with a surprising viciousness. Without wanting to judge whether this is justified in a given case or not I would like to remark that IMHO few around here match his ability and readiness to ponder the case again and make an apology if he feels his reaction might indeed have a bit to harsh.

I highly respect that.

von Marwitz
 
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