The progress of the Counter-Reformation, Summer 1588

Mark Stevens

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1. Austrian Hapsburg forces are blocked from moving north along the Elbe and Oder rivers by the armies of Saxony and Brandenburg, while the Protestants in Bohemia raise a revolt along their lines of communication. Jesuit missionaries continue the Lord's work among the civilian population.

2. The Duke of Parma's Army of Flanders pushes the Dutch rebels back to the coast of the North Sea, but cannot deal the heretics a finishing blow. To the east, Spanish forces complete the siege of Protestant Minden which will shortly be reconverted to the True Faith.
 

Wolfe Tone

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Looks Ace Mark!

Wasn't there a boardgame called 'A Mighty Fortress' back in the 1970's that covered this period?


Where can I download this game from BTW?
 

Mark Stevens

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Best bet is to use this: it's fully playable and - famous last words - bug free, but I'm still finding minor points (e.g. I've only just noticed that the super river that I placed to separate Gibraltar from mainland Spain prevented supply reaching the fortress) (= dead in a few months).

In view of your avatar I suspect that you're looking forward to driving the English out of Ireland - if you've any comments on that aspect of the game, or indeed any others, do please let me know.

You're right about 'A Mighty Fortress' - similarish period of time, one of SPI's classics, but it always bothered me that the neutral states had no defences, and that there was no terrain apart from cities.

Do note that you'll need Rhinobones' XIXth modified database, address on map.
 

Wolfe Tone

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Mark Stevens said:
Best bet is to use this: it's fully playable and - famous last words - bug free, but I'm still finding minor points (e.g. I've only just noticed that the super river that I placed to separate Gibraltar from mainland Spain prevented supply reaching the fortress) (= dead in a few months).

In view of your avatar I suspect that you're looking forward to driving the English out of Ireland - if you've any comments on that aspect of the game, or indeed any others, do please let me know.

You're right about 'A Mighty Fortress' - similarish period of time, one of SPI's classics, but it always bothered me that the neutral states had no defences, and that there was no terrain apart from cities.

Do note that you'll need Rhinobones' XIXth modified database, address on map.
Thanks Mark.

Downloaded your game file, read the background info (excellent!) but can't open the game file!

I discovered this after downloading it into the zip scenarios file then copying it to transfer it into the scenarios file itself. But when I went to find it like it was not there!:eek:

I then tried to cut rather than copy but a message comes up saying the file can't be found (IIRC).

I tried the same with your Bannockburn game and that works fine.

Gladly help to fill you in on what was happening in Ireland round that time.:)
 

Mark Stevens

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Hmmmmmmmmmm. I've checked both the doc. & sce, files, which work, and have rezipped them both, and combined them.

I think you should (i) make sure that you've got the XIXth Century database in your TOAW file, then unzip the attachment into the usual scenario folder. You can move the doc. file out if you'd prefer it to sit somewhere else.

Then open the XIXth Century database exe. from the TOAW files (not the normal TOAW exe.), and you should see the usual starting game screen: one of the scenarios listed should be The Wars of Religion.

Failing this, I could send the unzipped versions directly to you, but I don't think it's the files themselves.

Let me know.

Rezipped file attached, but I don't think that's the problem.
 

Wolfe Tone

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well Mark I did that and the scenario opens fine!

Trouble is when I open in the 19C Database the game loads with the modern symbols like a normal COW game.

Also many units, esp Spanish ones are 'Invisible'!:eek:

Like you can move them, trace the movement path and all but they are transparent with just the numerical values actually visible.

Re Ireland at that time all the cities/towns were under English or Anglo-Irish control. The Gaelic Irish were a rural based people at least in terms of power politics. I don't think Belfast actually existed then either. If it did it was just a castle and not much more.

Also remember there was a large settler population of English descent 'The Old English' who were Catholics and half in and half out of favour with the Crown, 'half subjects' as James I was later to call them.

Not all the Anglo-Irish Lords or Gaelic chieftans were always in revolt, sometimes they cooperated with Eliizabeth, at other times they were at War with her.

The Earl of Tyrone aka 'The O'Neill' did not go into open revolt until 1594 triggering The Nine Years War which drained English resources in a Vietnam style conflict. England eventually had to throw in some 20,000 men to suppress it and spend a vast amount. Eventullay he submitted in 1603 and enjoyed a few years respite before fleeing to Rome where he died in exile in 1616.
 

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Wolfe Tone said:
well Mark I did that and the scenario opens fine!

Trouble is when I open in the 19C Database the game loads with the modern symbols like a normal COW game.

Also many units, esp Spanish ones are 'Invisible'!:eek:

Like you can move them, trace the movement path and all but they are transparent with just the numerical values actually visible.
Are you sure you installed the bmp files (they come together with XIX v.4 database) on your TOAW graphics folder?
 

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Mark

Well done (again...)
I'm playing hot seat and i think you really got the grasp of the period warfare. That's the dificult thing to achieve and that's done :thumup:
Apart from very small details (the Gibraltar supply, the mobile dutch fort at 67,32) no bugs found until now.
I'm using some simple personnel house rules in addition to the scenario house rules: Cavarly units don't dig-in and other units only dig if stacked with a fort unit.
One question... why certain cavalry units use the XIX icon and others use the toaw/Nato symbol?
 

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Thanks, I thought it would be nice to try something other than WWII, and I think the modified database can cover other periods with a reasonable degree of accuracy, provided a designer tries to research it as fully as possible. One problem is that once you get much beyond WWI, ORBATs and TOEs start getting VERY speculative*. WoR isn't too bad because there were around 300 galleys per side at Lepanto in 1571, the numbers for the Spanish Armada, the Army of Flanders, the English Trained Bands, etc. are known, but how many troops could the Berber rebels in the Atlas Mountains really field?

Cavalry icons? It's the same reason as why some of the smaller WoR navies still use the modern TOAW icon: I think the XIXth Century database was something of an experiment, and only a limited number of palette colours were modified - see Rhinobones' e-mail on the TOAW thread under the heading 'A bit off of the beaten track'.

I think that with a few more modifications to units and icons, which I'm discussing with him at the moment, the engine could comfortably handle Ancient, Medieval and Renaissance warfare quite adequately.

The real question is whether most players would be interested in, say, the Fall of the Roman Empire, the Thirty Years War or the Battle of Lutzen? Understandably, most are far more keen on WWII scenarios and it would be a pity to do a lot of work on a topic then find you get four downloads, and one of them is your old granny trying to be encouraging.

*Although you could argue, as many have, that Europe Aflame is pretty much a fantasy scenario! :D
 

Secadegas

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Mark Stevens said:
Cavalry icons? It's the same reason as why some of the smaller WoR navies still use the modern TOAW icon:
Of course... i should have noticed that...

Mark Stevens said:
I think that with a few more modifications to units and icons, which I'm discussing with him at the moment, the engine could comfortably handle Ancient, Medieval and Renaissance warfare quite adequately.
I agree but i think the strategic/operational level is the best.

Mark Stevens said:
The real question is whether most players would be interested in, say, the Fall of the Roman Empire, the Thirty Years War or the Battle of Lutzen? Understandably, most are far more keen on WWII scenarios and it would be a pity to do a lot of work on a topic then find you get four downloads, and one of them is your old granny trying to be encouraging.
I was thinking about this also... and you're right. This quality scenario on WWII bias would be a must. But i believe some of us are getting tired of beeing on Manstein, Model or Ike's shoes... and in my case playing these kind of pre-1800 stategic/operational scenarios i don't have to face the long range artillary/ant supply drain attacks :dead: (which i always use if i have the chance...:hush: )
 

Secadegas

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Hummm... replacements might be set too high...
Most units are reconstituted in 4/5 turns...

I'am afraid the capital garrissons set to reconstitute will not do so due to the fixed artillery icon (units with this symbol never reconstitute). Better change the icon to garrisson (the "square" one...)
 
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Mark Stevens

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Replacements are set at 2%, which doesn't sound excessive: I think I'd argue that their apparent destruction and reappearance represents sixteenth century armies being fragile and easily falling apart or dispersing, then reforming in a month or so, rather than a Stalingrad style wipe-out being followed by the raising of a completely new army. We're a long way off of total war. The French Wars of Religion went on from 1562-98, the Dutch revolt against Spain is also known as the Eighty Years War, and shortly after this scenario ends the Thirty Years War started. The Civil Wars in the British Isles lasted from 1639-1651ish. It's frustrating when enemy forces you think that you've 'wiped out' reassemble, but I think there's a good arguement that that's what happened. Could lower replacements to 1% which would presumably extend the reforming to 8/10 weeks?

Didn't realise about the fort icons though - version 1(b) looms! Wouldn't the garrison icons let them creep around the map at a move of one hex? Maybe I could weight them down with artillery with no horses or loads of wagons? Have to check it out.

Thanks for the feedback though.
 

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Mark Stevens said:
Replacements are set at 2%, which doesn't sound excessive: I think I'd argue that their apparent destruction and reappearance represents sixteenth century armies being fragile and easily falling apart or dispersing, then reforming in a month or so, rather than a Stalingrad style wipe-out being followed by the raising of a completely new army. We're a long way off of total war.
I can easily agree with you on this... even though i still think 2% replacements is a bit high when thinking about the huge numbers of some assigned equipment.
Mark Stevens said:
Could lower replacements to 1% which would presumably extend the reforming to 8/10 weeks?
The effect will not exactly double the unit reforming time that but it's at least a big reduction on replacements numbers.

Mark Stevens said:
Didn't realise about the fort icons though - version 1(b) looms! Wouldn't the garrison icons let them creep around the map at a move of one hex? Maybe I could weight them down with artillery with no horses or loads of wagons?
Even with lots of low movement equipment (forts are such type of equipment) they will always be able to move 1 hex. You can ask the players not to move them (that would be easy...) but the problem is that by result of combat they can reatreat and that's not what is expected to happen to a fort...
You can use the armoured train icon. Without rail lines those units will not move but the visual effect... :kotz:

Mark Stevens said:
Thanks for the feedback though.
Thanks for one more great scenario :thumup:
 

Mark Stevens

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Maybe the diamond shaped icons intended for coastal artillery? At least they're vaguely reminiscent of sixteenth century 'star' fortresses...very vaguely...

Denmark and the Ottoman Turks mobilise on the same turn, so here's my chance to find out about game balance.

Shouldn't have been so ambitious and taken Bremen. :cry:
 

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Mark Stevens said:
Maybe the diamond shaped icons intended for coastal artillery? At least they're vaguely reminiscent of sixteenth century 'star' fortresses...very vaguely...
Sorry to disappoint you again but fixed/costal artillery (and special forces) do not reconstitute...
Probably RhinoBones could create a new fort/castle icon that would solve this...
 

Mark Stevens

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Looks like armoured trains it is. At least they're not so odd looking as the railway artillery icon, which appears to be a telephone. With a dot.
 

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Mark Stevens said:
Looks like armoured trains it is. At least they're not so odd looking as the railway artillery icon, which appears to be a telephone. With a dot.
There is an advantage on the armoured trains... since the catholics have more capital garrisons than the protestants the movement points of their armoured trains units gives them the turn iniciative which is good when playing hot seatted. Without it the iniciative was always changing from one side to the other each turn...:shock:

Heidelburg (68,44) fortress is not set to reconstitute even if it's the capital of Palatinate. You might want to give it a look.
 
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