The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 years?

[Psycho]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

They are all still chasing Mark Nixon's all-time contributions.

Or because they want his ass for stealing everyone's Pop Tarts! :angry:

 

[Aaron Cleavin]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

Maybe it should be by categories.

A) Product-for lack of a better term: i.e. Designers, Design(s) (to include HASL)
B) Behind the Scenes: i.e. playtesters, proofers, layout specialists,
C) Artists: i.e. map, board, counter art 'elves'
D) Catch All: Tourney Directors, GS helper-types (e.g. Klas Malmstrom answering rules Q/A every day), etc.

I think over 25 years there are just so many people who have given so much that picking just 5 seems wrong.

The HOF should have 10 inductees then get another 1 added every 2 years.

My Noms for the initial 10 would be:

1. Don Greenwood
2. Charlie Kibler
3. Curt Schilling
4. Mark Nixon
5. Perry Cocke
6. Brian Youse
7. Rex Martin
8 Brett Hildebran
9 Chas Smith
10. Chas Argent

There have been many many others though...

 

[James Taylor]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

I think over 25 years there are just so many people who have given so much that picking just 5 seems wrong.

The HOF should have 10 inductees then get another 1 added every 2 years.

My Noms for the initial 10 would be:

1. Don Greenwood
2. Charlie Kibler
3. Curt Schilling
4. Mark Nixon
5. Perry Cocke
6. Brian Youse
7. Rex Martin
8 Brett Hildebran
9 Chas Smith
10. Chas Argent

There have been many many others though...

Starting a HoF for ASL and picking ONLY 10 inductees for the first year would be very difficult.

2 guys that would have to be on that list IMHO would be Mac and Fish.

JT

 

[Psycho]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

Starting a HoF for ASL and picking ONLY 10 inductees for the first year would be very difficult.

2 guys that would have to be on that list IMHO would be Mac and Fish.

JT

Fish is a bum too! Using all the knowledge I gave him to bottom feed his way to stardom! :angry:

 

[trevpr1]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

Bob McNamara

 

[trevpr1]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

Hi-

Ok why am I nominating Adolf Hitler? Because without the little fuhrer we would not have such a great game like ASL. We would not be able to enjoy the Awesome modul VotG by Tom Morin without Adolf's insane attack into Stalingrad. Nor Would we be able to enjoy CH! Afrika Korps packs if it was not for Adolf sending Erwin Rommel out to North Afrika to offer an actual challange to Brit dominance in that area.

Heck without Adolf, we would not have Black SS counters.


Scott

A complete Bastard.

 

[Faded 8-1]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

In my mind, there are two guys that stand head and shoulders above everyone else when it comes to HOF consideration. These two guys should be the first two entrants, no question.

1. Don Greenwood - Author of the original ASLRB. The rulebook is, quite simply, a wonder of rules-writing. It is a masterpiece that's clarity, precision, and tremendous scope has yet to be equalled in wargaming, and may never be. Greenwood understood that rules-writing is technical writing. Although some find the language and density of the rules off-putting, those that stick with it for the long haul will inevitably come to appreciate Don's work. It set the tone for the many rules chapters that have followed. It is the best wargame rulebook ever written.

2. Charles Kibler - Charlie Kibler defined the look of ASL. From the original counters, to the geoboards, to the Chapter B terrain drawings, to his revolutionary Red Barricades map, Charlies art set the stage for all that followed. The realistic look of his mapboard paintings is still relevant today, and he understood that form and beauty should complement functionality, not replace it (a lesson that some current wargame artists seem to have forgotten). His art alone would qualify Charlie for an inaugral spot in the HOF, but he is also probably the game's greatest innovater. The concepts of historical modules, campaign games, and SASL, which have become staples of the game, were all Charlie's brainchildren.

I think it would be hard to find anyone else whose contributions have defined the game quite as much as those two. They laid the groundwork, and did it competently and professionally.

My nominations after Greenwood and Kibler would be Bob Macnamara and Rex Martin. Then guys like Nixon, Fish, and Schilling and the MMP guys. Also Fort and Mike McGrath (first of the 'superplayers' - guys who prove by their consistent excellence at the game that, despite the massive amount of die-rolling and incredible swings of fortune, it really IS a game of skill - not luck).

After them would come the TPP innovaters, like Kurt Martin, Evan Sherry, Fort (again), Ray Tapio, Robert Wolkey, and others.

 

[Roadtogundagai]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

Don Greenwood.

Word. How can you go past the designer of ASL? Don dropped out from ASL after Yanks - so chapters A to E are his baby.

AFAIK, Bob MacNamara was the designer of chapters F & G, and also the key mover behind the improved AFV armour / TK system.

I don't see how anyone else can come close to these two gents? Perhaps Charlie Kibler for Red Barricades?

 

[Spencer Armstrong]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

Word. How can you go past the designer of ASL? Don dropped out from ASL after Yanks - so chapters A to E are his baby.

I excluded Don due to most of that work being done 25+ years ago. I actually thought that was the intent since clearly no one can stand up to the guy who crafted the Rulebook.

S

 

[Justiciar]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

I cannot speak for Chris, but I believe the intent of his post was to seek out those beyond the recognized founding fathers, we all understand that without the likes of Mac/Greenwood we would not have ASL, and bring to light the the sons of these fathers, IMHO.

 

[Faded 8-1]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

I excluded Don due to most of that work being done 25+ years ago. I actually thought that was the intent since clearly no one can stand up to the guy who crafted the Rulebook.

S

Well, ASL was published 25 years ago this year. So in a sense, all ASL contributions have been within the past 25 years.

I cannot speak for Chris, but I believe the intent of his post was to seek out those beyond the recognized founding fathers, we all understand that without the likes of Mac/Greenwood we would not have ASL, and bring to light the the sons of these fathers, IMHO.

You're probably right. My own post was picking up on Aaron Cleavin's HOF idea, which captured my interest more than a contest for a set of dice. Still, rereading the OP, he didn't actually say what you are saying, so I'm not sure why the likes of Greenwood, Kibler, and Mac shouldn't be included.

 

[Justiciar]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

You're probably right. My own post was picking up on Aaron Cleavin's HOF idea, which captured my interest more than a contest for a set of dice. Still, rereading the OP, he didn't actually say what you are saying, so I'm not sure why the likes of Greenwood, Kibler, and Mac shouldn't be included.

Well Chris did not frame by HOF by any means. And for me his list with suggesting avenues/ways of looking at ASL beyond the "fathers". [But I take you point of Greenwood et. al.].

The 'dice contest' is a red herring to me, I think his post is about unearthing the second tier [if that is how one wishes to see it of "Contributors to ASL"], his objective is more than giving away dice, its about reflecting back on 25 years. We all know without a certain set of say 10 (and let us say Aaron's 10 as given, just for the sake of it), the question is "who then?", with particular attention to the various categories he was offering up. Well that is my take......

......paging Battleschool, please pick up the white colored phone...

 

[Faded 8-1]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

Okay, fair enough. That's what I get for scanning the thread instead of reading more carefully.

I'll drop out now, but I'd just like to say that I think everyone here is just as aware of the contributions of those '2nd tier' contributors just as much as they are aware of the contributions of the founders. Possibly moreso, as there are a lot of people who are latecomers to the game who have interacted here with people like Chas Argent and Chas Smith on a regular basis but might not have much clue who Bob MacNamara or Rex Martin are.

 

[Aaron Cleavin]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

Starting a HoF for ASL and picking ONLY 10 inductees for the first year would be very difficult.

2 guys that would have to be on that list IMHO would be Mac and Fish.

JT

Fish I Had thought of but only had 10, Mac is a Doh (Bash self on head moment)

 

[Justiciar]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

but I'd just like to say that I think everyone here is just as aware of the contributions of those '2nd tier' contributors just as much as they are aware of the contributions of the founders. Possibly moreso, as there are a lot of people who are latecomers to the game who have interacted here with people like Chas Argent and Chas Smith on a regular basis but might not have much clue who Bob MacNamara or Rex Martin are.

That is a fair point too, and one I had not seen, b/c I am the old, old school and have interacted with both. So I take your counter point.

 

[Gunner Scott]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

Hi-

Seriously, There are lots and lots of people who have done a hell of a job for this hobby, not just the few named here. Their reward? AAR's or articles done by the fans of those products those ASL gaming companies put out.

But here are my top Ten dudes that have really made me enjoy this hobby so much:

Adolf Hitler- Without him this hobby would not exist

The Pitman- His DM website is just simply a work of dedication to this hobby.

Curt Schilling- Without Him, MMP would not exist

Eddie Zeman- Mr HASL and the man who started the TPP HASL craze

Ray Tapio- Mr ASL a Man who takes chances on very out of the ordinary ASL subjects and does a Great Job at it.

Mark Nuekom- Mr Time on Target, the Man set the standard for counter and scenario layout as well as some really cool scenario packs.

Mark Nixon- Mr ASL writer, his Gunned up in the Desert is one of the very best articles for ASL

Evan Sherry- Mr SP, Cranking out Tourny scenarios forever and a day and still going strong with great stuff.

Tom Morin- Mr VotG and best darn scenario designer outthere today, every design is a real treat to play.

Vic Provost- Mr DftB dude, The man has put out quality issues from start to finish and no complaints from me in between.

Scott

 

[SamB]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

Scott,

Praise for Adolf Hitler is just nuttty. It's in poor taste and doesn't belong... Give it a rest.

There are enough people who equate war gaming with neo nazis without you fanning the flames.

I know have never felt anything remotely like gratitude towards the people who plunged the world into a world war and caused millions to suffer and millions more to die.

 

[Fort]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

Scott,

Praise for Adolf Hitler is just nuttty. It's in poor taste and doesn't belong... Give it a rest.

There are enough people who equate war gaming with neo nazis without you fanning the flames.

I know have never felt anything remotely like gratitude towards the people who plunged the world into a world war and caused millions to suffer and millions more to die.

Seriously, if you had the choice between world war II wargames not available or Adolf Hilter not being born I know which choice I would make.

In no particular order:

Mac
Charlie Kibler
Mark Nixon
Fish
Don Greenwood
Rex Martin
Perry Cocke
Brian Youse (for all the crap he catches he's the man that, more than anyone else, has made MMP happen and kept ASL alive)
Whoever is responsible for VASL (sorry, I just don't know who to credit)
Chas Argent

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

Adolf Hitler

If it was not for him, we would be playing WW One or Nappy games.


Scott

Kaiser Wilhelm and Gavrilo Princip too, for without them, there would have been no Hitler.

I don't understand the whole need to elevate a handful of people yet again when, as pointed out by many here, the community moves forward on the backs of hundreds if not thousands of people. In an attempt to include a handful you simply exclude hundreds more - to no purpose. And the ones who are worthiest of the highest praise are generally the ones who eschew it anyway. It's sort of like having a "coolest kid contest." Everyone knows who they are. Talking about it just makes them less cool. :hmmm:

I appreciate the good-intentions of the thread starter, but the question is so (purposefully?) vague that it's simply (another) popularity contest. Personally, I'd vote for any of the characters nominated so far, except perhaps AH.

 

[Ray Woloszyn]

Re: The People's Choice Awards: Who has contributed the most to ASL in the past 25 ye

"Contribution" to this accountant means money so let's hear it for the players that have shelled out their hard earned cash over the years to keep the dream alive.