17poundr
Member
I just got the dvd of Tom Selleck as IKE.
I was very dissapointed, not to mention, that the film could have been much more about the great acchivements of so many men, and women, on this great undertaking, and the drama of getting ready.
We get mr Selleck, (who's I have nothing agaisnt as an actor), walking arround, and being supposedly what IKE was like.
It was boring IMHO.
But that's not the point, the abysmal treatment that Field Marshall Montgomery gets, in the film is astonishing.
First let me list some of the more nasty slurs on Britains most loved ww2 commander, then, let me give a short analysis on what on earth is wrong with the American media machine and it's constant need to belittle Britains and other Commonwealth countries war effort at the expence of the US war years.
First you see IKE talking about the bomber barons to Churchill, and saying that their way is wrong, and that a landing should be done.
This is completely wrong, the Cossack team had planned the landings from the year 43 onward, IKE and Monty were pulled out of Italy, to get the Cossack team the two best generals that were deemed available at the time.
Slur no 1. Ike's US officer friend says that Montgomery is a Megalomaniac, and a pain in the ass.
Can you imagine a British film saying this about IKE? Infact Montgomery's family could sue for liable on suggesting that Montgomery was mentally unstable.
Hitler was a megalomaniac, just to give some perspective.
Ok, I'll go on with the list, I didnt get all of it, but here are the many insults on Montgomery:
Monty is called IKE's friendly unfriendly.
Monty is like a sergean major when correcting one of IKE's guards uniforms (As if he cared)!
The planning of Overlord is distorted beyond belivef! Monty is seen as trying to overwrite the already done Cossack plans, that he and IKE went to perfect, and made the plans for Overlord. I belive it was Monty's idea to expand the beacheads from three to four, and put one more airbourne div onto the flanks.
But in the film, all of a sudden, Monty is suggesting, attacking Holland, and taking the rhein, and ending the war!
So, in this version, monty is all of a sudden pushing Market Garden, a plan that was hatched only after the German forces fleed France and Belgium.
Patton on the other hand, is ofcourse, 'Brilliant, but...'.
Quite a difference from monty's, 'Megalomaniac and a pain in the ass', isnt it? If anything both were media players in their own way.
The Americans are seen as fighting for the Checks and all the other free nations, funny, I cant remember, America going to war over Poland, or taking Polish volunteers, or Check pilots amongst the other people who fled to Britain to fight Hitler.
Also, IKE silently agree's to Patton's views on the suspicion about a coming showdown with stalin, and the Communists. Very strange from IKE, a man who in reality sent his battle plan's to the STAVKA during the latter part of the war, without asking Marshall, his president, or Churchill, who infact had been the warning bell about the coming Communist intentions about east Europe, at least since, the Warsaw uprising.
IKE's confidants are all American officers, where in history books by Ambrose, Ryan, ect all talk of his constant chat's with Tedder, ect. Again, Overlord was an US, UK and Canadian op, with more British officers in IKE's staff than American, but in the film, he never talks seriously to a single British officer! Only Churchill will do on two occasions.
IKE compare's his hq to McArthurs, which he critisizes, and says 'This isnt McArthurs hq, where... some slur about Corn Cob'.
'We are all running backs' says IKE, funny but Montgomery, seems to be on the bench all the time.
Patton appologises to IKE and promises to keep his mouth shut, there is a warm feeling between the two. Monty on the other hand, who was a good friend of IKE's in North afrika at least, before the media started to 'race' Monty agaisnt Patton, and started the 'silent competition, between the two countries in the publics oppinion, and caused much damage, like when Monty's remark about HIS part in the Bulge, was taken out of context and made to outrage the US, with the famous 'It was one of the most interesting battles I have fought', media slur. But he appologized. And admitted (just like Patton, but this was not shown ofcourse). To saying stupid things sometimes.
Back to the film: Rommell apparently though of Patton as the allies no-1 general.
Funny, for I saw a documentary where an old man who had been in a special force, gathering soil sample's of the Normandy beaches, and was caught.
The infamous Commando order stipulated that such men, could be executed immediately.
He remembered ( he was originally from Hungary, but had changed his name to a British one, and spoke with a perfect british accent), the captor saying with a menacing voice the word: 'Commando', but then a miracle happened! Apparently Rommel was in the area, and wanted to see this man, he was brough in front of Rommel, and guess what Rommell wanted to know?
He asked, how is my friend Montgomery?, and the two men had a bizarre conversation, then Rommell ashured that no harm would come to the man.
So, I wonder, who'm Rommel really considered his no.1 Enemy after all that jazz in north Africa??? well, ike knows best.
Then IKE is talking about the Overlord meeting, and Churchill knows about some of the matters discussed, IKE replies 'I suppose that Monty has been here to tell you'? Suggesting that Monty is a scheeming rat like figure so common in period drama's from the middle ages.
Churchill had daily reports from the British Chief of the Joint chiefs of staff, and I belive that Monty didnt have to do any sneeking for Churchill to be in the know about the coming invasion. Again, insults, dressed as drama.
And again, at the second planning session all the other (for most of the film completely silent) British officers of IKE's staff, agree with the plan, but Monty is on about some version of MARKET GARDEN??? Where on earth did they get that???
Then, Montgomery tries a 'sly trick' by showing an eastern front film, proving that the germans have moved troops away, and they should do a version of Market Garden instead of Overlord.
Now, the fact that Overlord had by now (in real history) been in the planning for over a year, and had both ike and monty working on it for half a year!
IKE's confidant is an American officer, he never talks shop to any British officers during whe whole film (oh, exept the weather guy).
'I loved your crack at Monty's about the French' says IKE to another US officer, conveying a strong dislike of Montgomery and they laugh heartilly, Monty at this time has becom somethign similar to 'Grima the snake tongue' to anybody familiar to the Lord of the Rings books or films.
Then begins the 'let's get ready' part, constantly there is an innuendo, that the Americans are there to do it, and the Brit's are but a nuicance, as perhaps the population of a concuered country.
The, Canadians simply do not exist in the film.
Exept in the end, when waiting for news about how the landings went, IKE say's, 'It's now out of our hands, it's in the hands of a private on Utah, or a corporal on Juno beach'.
No mention of the British beaches, which were the ammount as the US have to land, the same two bloody beaches for the Brit's to get over, close to two thousand British troops died on d-day.
No mention of them.
IKE is seen as having a hyper caring attitude to the combatants, a quality that Montgomery was known to have, but the Americans too often site as a 'weakness'!
An American Gen Miller, get's drunk and blabs about the landings three weeks before the 'show', detais and all.
He has to return to America as a punishment, still as IKE say's goodbye, to a man who made a mistake so great that one can but imagine if the wrong person would have heard it! Still, he get's more sympathy and friendliness from IKE than Monty during the whole film!
then Ike gives a speech where he say's 'there is no inner circle (amongst overlord planners, I presume), only those who live and those who die, well IKE has made it perfectly clear through the film, that Montgomery, has not been invited into his 'non circle'.
In the film, Monty complains about something in EVERY meeting there is!
IKE is seen asking for sitrep's from only US personel through the film, a subtle piece of propaganda.
The IKE comments that the Europeans like war. Well what about the American history since liberty from king george? You count how many wars the US has taken part in, and dont forget the banana wars of the 20's and 30's either!
Then come's one of the most hypocritical lines in the film, IKE with a look of consern on his face, says 'Monty's got Churchill worried'.
What a bunch of bs!
Then come the fears of the American Paratroopers losses, not a single word is said about the British Paratroops, who managed their job slightly better on D-day I might argue, and they stopped the 21 Panzer div, until it took off, to protect Caen!
Not a mention!
When De Gaulle who really is unhelpful and disrispectful (in reality too, both FDR and Churchill had problems with the Gaulle) Demands IKE to take him to his car, IKE act's likea a serveant, and says 'I see let me escort you to your car'.
Now, what ever Montgomery had done, he never get's such a kind word from IKE during the whole discrace of a film!
Then in the company of Royalty, before the great show, is to begin, Monty asks IKE not to smoke, I belive good manners when royalty is present, 'Well ok Monty it's your ground' says, IKE, and when all are seated he lights a cigarrette.
what kind of messages is this film trying to send?
Is this the thanks that Britain has been Americas most faithful ally during and beyond ww2?
This has got to stop! So many young people get into military history because of a good film, or series.
And there is this disturbing Monty bashing that the Americans just cannot let go of.
What if Britain constantly made films where Nimiz is portrayed as a weak minded, self centered martinet, who didnt get anything done anyway, it was the Aussies, and Brits? How would you feel?
AS FOR THE REAL MONTY???
HERE IS A BASIC RECORD
For the record,Montgomery served as a junior infantry officer in ww1, and was wounded twice, (for anybody's information, living through ww1 where junior infantry officers died at a circa 300% turnover rate, that means, that by the end of the war, all the junior officers had been replaced three times)!
Monty got his divison out of France when the nazi's blized it, and the third div, or 'monty's ironsides', got home almost all of them.
Then, he went on to finally crush any hope's of an Afrika Korps dominated middle east in El Alamein, which he predicted on how long it would last correctly!
Then, came the breaking of the Mareth line, a defencive line, that the french in Tunisia had built originnally to keep the Italians, away.
Monty declared he would take it by a certain date, IKE jokingly, said impossible, and the two men had a bet, Monty won it!
The, the allies landed in Cicily, what ever the media tried to put out as a 'competition', perhaps even caught the imagination of the two generals, Monty and Patton, anyway, they came to the end of Cicily on the same day, with the US, two hours earlier, pretty much the same time considering the campaign lasted five weeks and some.
Then, Monty landed in Italy, and his coming from the south, was one factor why the Panzer's giving a hard time at the US, and british landings at Salerno, left for their pre prepared defencive line's in the north.
Then, Monty and IKE both were called to see what Cossack had dreamed up about the Normandy landings.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was Monty who insisted that the landing force should be five beaches instead of three, and three para div's instead of two.
I think they were good improvements.
Monty, estimated that the Allied forces would be across the River Seine on D-day plus 90.
And so they were.
Then he made his only real mistake, Market Garden.
After that, he crossed the Rhine in op Varsity, with a grand army, and advanced across northern Germany, where he took the surrender of the new head of teh German state Admiral Dönitz, and kindly arranged for another proper ceremony with Americans, and other dignitaries present, for the signing.
I do not see why this man's career, can be said to be a bad one, and why he is so hated in America, I feel that something to do with the death of the british Empire, and the birth of the American trade empire has something to do with it, the media had to somehow glorify the Amerians, and belittle the brits.
I must say, that as a half Brit, I have almost got used to the ghastly attitude of the US film, and other media's (books), constant attacks on Field Marshall Montgomery, viCount of El Alamein's character.
If the Americans would do the same to Finlands Marshall Mannerheim, there would be many US men in Finnish bars with black eyes, that's how used the Brits are to the whole thing! They dont even notice it anymore! Please dont come up with the same old, 'he didnt take caen when he said he would' or I'll explode!
Yours truth seekingly,
Mr Poundr.
I was very dissapointed, not to mention, that the film could have been much more about the great acchivements of so many men, and women, on this great undertaking, and the drama of getting ready.
We get mr Selleck, (who's I have nothing agaisnt as an actor), walking arround, and being supposedly what IKE was like.
It was boring IMHO.
But that's not the point, the abysmal treatment that Field Marshall Montgomery gets, in the film is astonishing.
First let me list some of the more nasty slurs on Britains most loved ww2 commander, then, let me give a short analysis on what on earth is wrong with the American media machine and it's constant need to belittle Britains and other Commonwealth countries war effort at the expence of the US war years.
First you see IKE talking about the bomber barons to Churchill, and saying that their way is wrong, and that a landing should be done.
This is completely wrong, the Cossack team had planned the landings from the year 43 onward, IKE and Monty were pulled out of Italy, to get the Cossack team the two best generals that were deemed available at the time.
Slur no 1. Ike's US officer friend says that Montgomery is a Megalomaniac, and a pain in the ass.
Can you imagine a British film saying this about IKE? Infact Montgomery's family could sue for liable on suggesting that Montgomery was mentally unstable.
Hitler was a megalomaniac, just to give some perspective.
Ok, I'll go on with the list, I didnt get all of it, but here are the many insults on Montgomery:
Monty is called IKE's friendly unfriendly.
Monty is like a sergean major when correcting one of IKE's guards uniforms (As if he cared)!
The planning of Overlord is distorted beyond belivef! Monty is seen as trying to overwrite the already done Cossack plans, that he and IKE went to perfect, and made the plans for Overlord. I belive it was Monty's idea to expand the beacheads from three to four, and put one more airbourne div onto the flanks.
But in the film, all of a sudden, Monty is suggesting, attacking Holland, and taking the rhein, and ending the war!
So, in this version, monty is all of a sudden pushing Market Garden, a plan that was hatched only after the German forces fleed France and Belgium.
Patton on the other hand, is ofcourse, 'Brilliant, but...'.
Quite a difference from monty's, 'Megalomaniac and a pain in the ass', isnt it? If anything both were media players in their own way.
The Americans are seen as fighting for the Checks and all the other free nations, funny, I cant remember, America going to war over Poland, or taking Polish volunteers, or Check pilots amongst the other people who fled to Britain to fight Hitler.
Also, IKE silently agree's to Patton's views on the suspicion about a coming showdown with stalin, and the Communists. Very strange from IKE, a man who in reality sent his battle plan's to the STAVKA during the latter part of the war, without asking Marshall, his president, or Churchill, who infact had been the warning bell about the coming Communist intentions about east Europe, at least since, the Warsaw uprising.
IKE's confidants are all American officers, where in history books by Ambrose, Ryan, ect all talk of his constant chat's with Tedder, ect. Again, Overlord was an US, UK and Canadian op, with more British officers in IKE's staff than American, but in the film, he never talks seriously to a single British officer! Only Churchill will do on two occasions.
IKE compare's his hq to McArthurs, which he critisizes, and says 'This isnt McArthurs hq, where... some slur about Corn Cob'.
'We are all running backs' says IKE, funny but Montgomery, seems to be on the bench all the time.
Patton appologises to IKE and promises to keep his mouth shut, there is a warm feeling between the two. Monty on the other hand, who was a good friend of IKE's in North afrika at least, before the media started to 'race' Monty agaisnt Patton, and started the 'silent competition, between the two countries in the publics oppinion, and caused much damage, like when Monty's remark about HIS part in the Bulge, was taken out of context and made to outrage the US, with the famous 'It was one of the most interesting battles I have fought', media slur. But he appologized. And admitted (just like Patton, but this was not shown ofcourse). To saying stupid things sometimes.
Back to the film: Rommell apparently though of Patton as the allies no-1 general.
Funny, for I saw a documentary where an old man who had been in a special force, gathering soil sample's of the Normandy beaches, and was caught.
The infamous Commando order stipulated that such men, could be executed immediately.
He remembered ( he was originally from Hungary, but had changed his name to a British one, and spoke with a perfect british accent), the captor saying with a menacing voice the word: 'Commando', but then a miracle happened! Apparently Rommel was in the area, and wanted to see this man, he was brough in front of Rommel, and guess what Rommell wanted to know?
He asked, how is my friend Montgomery?, and the two men had a bizarre conversation, then Rommell ashured that no harm would come to the man.
So, I wonder, who'm Rommel really considered his no.1 Enemy after all that jazz in north Africa??? well, ike knows best.
Then IKE is talking about the Overlord meeting, and Churchill knows about some of the matters discussed, IKE replies 'I suppose that Monty has been here to tell you'? Suggesting that Monty is a scheeming rat like figure so common in period drama's from the middle ages.
Churchill had daily reports from the British Chief of the Joint chiefs of staff, and I belive that Monty didnt have to do any sneeking for Churchill to be in the know about the coming invasion. Again, insults, dressed as drama.
And again, at the second planning session all the other (for most of the film completely silent) British officers of IKE's staff, agree with the plan, but Monty is on about some version of MARKET GARDEN??? Where on earth did they get that???
Then, Montgomery tries a 'sly trick' by showing an eastern front film, proving that the germans have moved troops away, and they should do a version of Market Garden instead of Overlord.
Now, the fact that Overlord had by now (in real history) been in the planning for over a year, and had both ike and monty working on it for half a year!
IKE's confidant is an American officer, he never talks shop to any British officers during whe whole film (oh, exept the weather guy).
'I loved your crack at Monty's about the French' says IKE to another US officer, conveying a strong dislike of Montgomery and they laugh heartilly, Monty at this time has becom somethign similar to 'Grima the snake tongue' to anybody familiar to the Lord of the Rings books or films.
Then begins the 'let's get ready' part, constantly there is an innuendo, that the Americans are there to do it, and the Brit's are but a nuicance, as perhaps the population of a concuered country.
The, Canadians simply do not exist in the film.
Exept in the end, when waiting for news about how the landings went, IKE say's, 'It's now out of our hands, it's in the hands of a private on Utah, or a corporal on Juno beach'.
No mention of the British beaches, which were the ammount as the US have to land, the same two bloody beaches for the Brit's to get over, close to two thousand British troops died on d-day.
No mention of them.
IKE is seen as having a hyper caring attitude to the combatants, a quality that Montgomery was known to have, but the Americans too often site as a 'weakness'!
An American Gen Miller, get's drunk and blabs about the landings three weeks before the 'show', detais and all.
He has to return to America as a punishment, still as IKE say's goodbye, to a man who made a mistake so great that one can but imagine if the wrong person would have heard it! Still, he get's more sympathy and friendliness from IKE than Monty during the whole film!
then Ike gives a speech where he say's 'there is no inner circle (amongst overlord planners, I presume), only those who live and those who die, well IKE has made it perfectly clear through the film, that Montgomery, has not been invited into his 'non circle'.
In the film, Monty complains about something in EVERY meeting there is!
IKE is seen asking for sitrep's from only US personel through the film, a subtle piece of propaganda.
The IKE comments that the Europeans like war. Well what about the American history since liberty from king george? You count how many wars the US has taken part in, and dont forget the banana wars of the 20's and 30's either!
Then come's one of the most hypocritical lines in the film, IKE with a look of consern on his face, says 'Monty's got Churchill worried'.
What a bunch of bs!
Then come the fears of the American Paratroopers losses, not a single word is said about the British Paratroops, who managed their job slightly better on D-day I might argue, and they stopped the 21 Panzer div, until it took off, to protect Caen!
Not a mention!
When De Gaulle who really is unhelpful and disrispectful (in reality too, both FDR and Churchill had problems with the Gaulle) Demands IKE to take him to his car, IKE act's likea a serveant, and says 'I see let me escort you to your car'.
Now, what ever Montgomery had done, he never get's such a kind word from IKE during the whole discrace of a film!
Then in the company of Royalty, before the great show, is to begin, Monty asks IKE not to smoke, I belive good manners when royalty is present, 'Well ok Monty it's your ground' says, IKE, and when all are seated he lights a cigarrette.
what kind of messages is this film trying to send?
Is this the thanks that Britain has been Americas most faithful ally during and beyond ww2?
This has got to stop! So many young people get into military history because of a good film, or series.
And there is this disturbing Monty bashing that the Americans just cannot let go of.
What if Britain constantly made films where Nimiz is portrayed as a weak minded, self centered martinet, who didnt get anything done anyway, it was the Aussies, and Brits? How would you feel?
AS FOR THE REAL MONTY???
HERE IS A BASIC RECORD
For the record,Montgomery served as a junior infantry officer in ww1, and was wounded twice, (for anybody's information, living through ww1 where junior infantry officers died at a circa 300% turnover rate, that means, that by the end of the war, all the junior officers had been replaced three times)!
Monty got his divison out of France when the nazi's blized it, and the third div, or 'monty's ironsides', got home almost all of them.
Then, he went on to finally crush any hope's of an Afrika Korps dominated middle east in El Alamein, which he predicted on how long it would last correctly!
Then, came the breaking of the Mareth line, a defencive line, that the french in Tunisia had built originnally to keep the Italians, away.
Monty declared he would take it by a certain date, IKE jokingly, said impossible, and the two men had a bet, Monty won it!
The, the allies landed in Cicily, what ever the media tried to put out as a 'competition', perhaps even caught the imagination of the two generals, Monty and Patton, anyway, they came to the end of Cicily on the same day, with the US, two hours earlier, pretty much the same time considering the campaign lasted five weeks and some.
Then, Monty landed in Italy, and his coming from the south, was one factor why the Panzer's giving a hard time at the US, and british landings at Salerno, left for their pre prepared defencive line's in the north.
Then, Monty and IKE both were called to see what Cossack had dreamed up about the Normandy landings.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was Monty who insisted that the landing force should be five beaches instead of three, and three para div's instead of two.
I think they were good improvements.
Monty, estimated that the Allied forces would be across the River Seine on D-day plus 90.
And so they were.
Then he made his only real mistake, Market Garden.
After that, he crossed the Rhine in op Varsity, with a grand army, and advanced across northern Germany, where he took the surrender of the new head of teh German state Admiral Dönitz, and kindly arranged for another proper ceremony with Americans, and other dignitaries present, for the signing.
I do not see why this man's career, can be said to be a bad one, and why he is so hated in America, I feel that something to do with the death of the british Empire, and the birth of the American trade empire has something to do with it, the media had to somehow glorify the Amerians, and belittle the brits.
I must say, that as a half Brit, I have almost got used to the ghastly attitude of the US film, and other media's (books), constant attacks on Field Marshall Montgomery, viCount of El Alamein's character.
If the Americans would do the same to Finlands Marshall Mannerheim, there would be many US men in Finnish bars with black eyes, that's how used the Brits are to the whole thing! They dont even notice it anymore! Please dont come up with the same old, 'he didnt take caen when he said he would' or I'll explode!
Yours truth seekingly,
Mr Poundr.
