The Missing Panzers...

[nicky_longbranch]

 

[nicky_longbranch]

I do not see how these beauties did not make it in to Beyond Valor, they are nothing like the wimpy little IA or IB. I did see them in Broken Ground's German Army but there is no chapter H and its not "AH/MMP Canon" so..... I do not know.

 

[A_T_Great]

I do not see how these beauties did not make it in to Beyond Valor, they are nothing like the wimpy little IA or IB. I did see them in Broken Ground's German Army but there is no chapter H and its not "AH/MMP Canon" so..... I do not know.

They are pretty rare and useless, so unless someone has a fetish for rare MG armed tanks, it wouldn't be included. There are many vehicles of all armies not included in the modules. These could easily be made available by SSR for a certain scenario if anyone wanted to use them.

 

[R Hooks]

A few (of the F) might have been supplied to 1st SS Armored, which has it's share of evil, most of these were used in Poland or western Soviet Union to attack partisans. Surprise attacks on villages where a few partisans stay doesn't make a great scenario. I think the C's are so close to Pz II it wouldn't matter if none are in the game.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

As far as I know no Pz 1C or 1F went to 1SS. The Pz 1F were used in the USSR and Yugoslavia, a 1F is/was on display in Belgrade.

As for the Pz 1C's EW 141, it was not a cannon. Originally intended to be a full auto MG firing the 7.92x94mm round from the Panzerbüchse 38 & 39 ATR, in full automatic mode it wore out the barrel far too quickly. It was made semi-automatic as a result. The Pz IC then would rate as armed with ATR [1] 1 FP, cmg 3 FP (1MT). So less FP than a Pz IA/B and less penetration than a Pz II, but slightly better armour of 3/2.

 

[nicky_longbranch]

As far as I know no Pz 1C or 1F went to 1SS. The Pz 1F were used in the USSR and Yugoslavia, a 1F is/was on display in Belgrade.

As for the Pz 1C's EW 141, it was not a cannon. Originally intended to be a full auto MG firing the 7.92x94mm round from the Panzerbüchse 38 & 39 ATR, in full automatic mode it wore out the barrel far too quickly. It was made semi-automatic as a result. The Pz IC then would rate as armed with ATR [1] 1 FP, cmg 3 FP (1MT). So less FP than a Pz IA/B and less penetration than a Pz II, but slightly better armour of 3/2.

Great Response, What do you think an F would be in games terms and how many troops could it carry, a HS? The book article says 8 went to the 1st Panzer Division in Russia. Also that EW 141 shot a round with a tear gas capsule to force out occupants. I guess it wasn't really effective against anything but the most lightly armored of targets. Cool idea, though.

 

[R Hooks]

Great Response, What do you think an F would be in games terms and how many troops could it carry, a HS? The book article says 8 went to the 1st Panzer Division in Russia.

I made a mistake about saying SS, confused 1SS with !st.

 

[nicky_longbranch]

EW 141 cannon :



Weapon's length : 1670mm
Barrel's length : 1085mm
Weight : 30.2kg
Crew needed to operate : 1
Ammo used : 7.92x94mm Patronen
Ammo weight : 86g
Projectile weight : 14.6g
Muzzle velocity : 1160m/s
Firing modes : semi-auto
Rate of fire : 100 shots/min


Found this, just in case anybody was interested.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I made a mistake about saying SS, confused 1SS with !st.

Indeed, the SS had no tank divisions until well after the invasion of the Soviet Union.

The first minute and a half of this video actually shows the development and deployment of SS divisions in graphic form:

 

[Yuri0352]

What do you think an F would be in games terms and how many troops could it carry, a HS?

It would seem that if the Pzkw If were ever to appear within the ASL system, its size would probably place this vehicle within the 'Tankette' category (i.e. the Russian T-70). As it stands now, the rules (D6.2) prohibit tankettes from transporting passengers. The 'no riders on tankettes' rule is a direct contradiction of photographic evidence with regards to the T-70.

 

[nicky_longbranch]

It weighs

It would seem that if the Pzkw If were ever to appear within the ASL system, its size would probably place this vehicle within the 'Tankette' category (i.e. the Russian T-70). As it stands now, the rules (D6.2) prohibit tankettes from transporting passengers. The 'no riders on tankettes' rule is a direct contradiction of photographic evidence with regards to the T-70.

it weighs 21 tons, What tankette do you know is that big. It is definitely a light tank, it may even be considered medium (by Italian standards). It states all of the details right in the article, it had 80mm of Armor, tankette? no, not even close. LOL

 

[Michael Dorosh]

it weighs 21 tons, What tankette do you know is that big. It is definitely a light tank, it may even be considered medium (by Italian standards). It states all of the details right in the article, it had 80mm of Armor, tankette? no, not even close. LOL

Looks like it weighs twice what the Lynx weighed - while being slower and less well armed. The If was only combat trialled per your notes, while a couple of platoons of the Ic deployed to Normandy. Did they see action? Wikipedia suggests yes, and if so, there would be a strong rationale for inclusion in counter form at some point.

 

[nicky_longbranch]

I do not know why but I always thought the IF had a ramp like a Bradley and could hold a few soldiers inside. I do not think so now.