The May 1940 Campaign Scenario design

[jlbetin]

Guys,

use the IGN 3D portal it is far better for French maps
I've found the Chaberton Fortress and by a clever move I was abble to see what the Italian saw from their border toward Briançon, amazing, believe me

Marc, I need to rework your map it is too short on south border, it needs 30 km between Sedan and south limit to reflect fights there until beginning of june 40.
guderian needed 20 km from Sedan to be sure that Pz will be maneuvering safely, far away from French artillery


Der WanderGotMarc'sMap
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[nemo]

Re: 1940 Map of France + Benelux 2,5 km/hex

wasn't thinking about that though it's a great idea. What i was doing so far was to use the ruler to determine the distances between different points then draw hexes. Of course your method is a better way to do things.

Have you tried to printscreen in googleearth then open it in paintshopro or paint then lay hexagons on it?

Fact is, Google Earth can come in handy for checking distances or for modern scenarios. It's harder to use it for older settings as man-made features have changed quite a bit in say, the sixty years and counting since the end of WW2.
I work with old maps (generally at the 1:500000 scale), digitize them and then process them through the Hexgrid utility (ODD has a similar feature I believe) to have the desired hex overlay drawn. From there, it's all downhill...

 

[viridomaros]

then it would work with google earth as well, i just have to adjust the zoom to the correct level before printing the screen.
I'll have a look at that tomorrow.
I will also have a look at your IGN portal JL though i hope it's free

 

[nemo]

Guys,

use the IGN 3D portal it is far better for French maps
I've found the Chaberton Fortress and by a clever move I was abble to see what the Italian saw from their border toward Briançon, amazing, believe me

It's been a while since I didn't check this portal - clumsy interface and lack of features didn't make it, at the time, a good prospect for a map-making help.

Marc, I need to rework your map it is too short on south border, it needs 30 km between Sedan and south limit to reflect fights there until beginning of june 40.
guderian needed 20 km from Sedan to be sure that Pz will be maneuvering safely, far away from French artillery

I may have - I'm not on my main computer right now - an expanded version of the original jpeg file with the proper 2.5 km hex overlay. If so, I'll send it over so that you don't have to put together maps from different sources and scales to draw the southern end of your TOAW map.

 

[jlbetin]

Here is the 3D view of France through IGN portal http://www.geoportail.fr/5069712/visu3D/afficher-en-3d.htm?

Der WanderGotVertigo
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[viridomaros]

Faut installer le logiciel, ferai ca demain.

 

[nemo]

Jean-Luc, check your magic.fr account: you have mail.

 

[Olorin4]

Re: 1940 Map of France + Benelux 2,5 km/hex

I've tried many times to superpose a scalable hex overlay on Google Earth following the advices found on GE forums, but to no avail, no matter how much effort I put into it. Someone proficient enough with kmz files could probably work it out though.

I tried various methods but to no avail as well. Here is what I did: made a bmp file from google earth, then tried various programs to convert it to mml format. I downloaded various programs that I thought could do the job, but nothing could.

P.S. There is guide? Where are those GE forums? If it can be done, it would be great. I want my map to be 100% accurate

 

[jlbetin]

Ok I begin the first development

1st point the name, to avoid confusions I decided to name my scenario

Sichelschnitt-Sedan1940 In German it means the sickel stroke (?)

For the happy few abble to read French I will use many articles issued from the Guerre Blindés & Materiel review N° 74 to the last one 83 (I wait impatiently the 84 )

I will work too with folks of France 1940 group issued from yahoo France1940@yahoogroups.com

Map is the one of Nemo's Race to the sea, it will need some extension on east and south but nothing unbreakable

Here I'm

Der WanderStonneEtMontDieu
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[jlbetin]

On the 6th of July

Scenario frame

Size 2,5km/hex
Time Frame 6 hours
Unit Size Btn or Rgt, rare companies.

Scenario begins 13th of may up to 25th of may

Climate Temperate, light precipitation, unlucky for allies it was a marvelous month of may

OOB From North to South

Allies
French 7th Armée
Belgium Army
British Exp. Force
French 1st Armée
French 9th Armée
French 2nd Armée

Third Reich ( it was NSADP army, not the one of Germany I love)
18th Army
6th Army
4th Army
12th Army

Here I am

Der WanderJean-LucWorkingForYou
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[sPzAbt653]

'Sichelschnitt-Sedan1940 In German it means the sickel stroke (?)'

For what it's worth, McCarthy and Syron's 'Panzerkrieg' translates 'Manstein's Sichelschnitt' as 'Manstein's Sickle Cut'. However, I have found some errors in the book, so I don't know about it's accuracy. I do know that in translating German, there sometimes are no 'exact' English words, so I suppose either 'stroke' or 'cut' would do.
My vote would be to use 'cut', as I think it better describes the maneuver.

Cheers!

 

[Gustave]

'Sichelschnitt-Sedan1940 In German it means the sickel stroke (?)'

For what it's worth, McCarthy and Syron's 'Panzerkrieg' translates 'Manstein's Sichelschnitt' as 'Manstein's Sickle Cut'. However, I have found some errors in the book, so I don't know about it's accuracy. I do know that in translating German, there sometimes are no 'exact' English words, so I suppose either 'stroke' or 'cut' would do.
My vote would be to use 'cut', as I think it better describes the maneuver.

Cheers!

I think you're right.

In France, we usually say "le coup de faucille de Sedan" (Sedan's sickle cut) or "le coup de faux de Sedan" (Sedan's scythe cut).

Gus

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Sichel is sickle, not scythe (the blade with the short, not the one with the long handle). As for the verb and its figurative meaning, my suggestion would be "sickle sweep", but "sickle cut" will do as a literal translation of Sichelschnitt.

 

[nemo]

The Cut of the Scythe - Sedan 1940 sounds definitely better, to me at least. For what it's worth, it's a reference to be found at the Defence Technical Information Center (The Cut of the Scythe is the title of a 1988 Master's thesis at the Army and General Staff College dealing with the Sedan breakthrough).

 

[nemo]

Or even better - for the purists - leave it in its original German form. Increased coolness and chrome factors :smoke:

 

[Gustave]

Sichel is sickle, not scythe (the blade with the short, not the one with the long handle

The mostly current french translation is "coup de faux" (scythe cut).

Perhaps because we were on the wrong side of the tool?

Let's forget the literal translation and try to give a sense to this "sichelschnitt".

What does it represent?

The movement you do with the tool?

Something like this?

View attachment 22194

or like that?

View attachment 22193

GUS, adept of the pendular movement

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Let's forget the literal translation and try to give a sense to this "sichelschnitt".

What does it represent?

Exactly. My thinking is that the plan was called "Sichelschnitt" because if executed it would, very figuratively speaking, sever the corn stems near the ground (cut through the rear areas) rather than attack the ears or heads (the Allied armies in Belgium) directly. I do agree that this image invokes the picture of a scythe rather than of a sickle. (The literal translation is still sickle.)

I also think the wide sweeping motion of the German spearhead advance (it does look like a shallow circle section on a map) played a part in suggesting the name though. That's why I suggested the "sweep" of the sickle.

In any case, I believe Marc is right in that leaving the German word is probably best for a wargaming scenario.

 

[jlbetin]

It was my intention since the beginning to let the German name, it is a way to honor Von Manstein and Guderian, the genius of German victory in 1940

Der WanderForEverBeDamnTheNameofPhilippePétain
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[jlbetin]

To my German Freunds, do you know a good web site with the TO&E of German forces

I have partial ones and not fine enough to go to the Abteilung level.

Thanks in Advance

Der WanderAusMarschMarschZugVorwartz
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[Gustave]

I' ve found this several times on the web:

Army Group A commanded by Gerd von Rundstedt, composed of 45½ divisions including seven armoured, was to execute the decisive movement, cutting a "Sichelschnitt" — not the official name of the operation but the translation in German of a phrase after the events coined by Winston Churchill[1] as "Sickle Cut" (and even earlier "armoured scythe stroke"[2])

[1]Karl-Heinz Frieser Blitzkrieg-Legende p. 71
[2]W. Churchill, His Complete Speeches, vol 6, p. 6226

It seems that we are trying to translate in english a german translation of Winston Churchill's words. :clown:
Really funny!