The Irrigation Ditch Poll

[Robin Reeve]

The polder ditches are much more substantial than the average roadside ditch. The average roadside ditch is part-and-parcel of ordinary open ground. This is polder with irritation ditches:

View attachment 10376

JR

Which have nothing to do with the irrigation ditches depicted in Pegasus Bridge and which are the original terrain this thread is about.

That said, I think that I am guilty of having evoked the idea of SSRed ditches along roads - which in my mind are not exactly the irrigation ditches of PB - and thus derailed the thread partially too.

 

[Gordon]

Which have nothing to do with the irrigation ditches depicted in Pegasus Bridge and which are the original terrain this thread is about.

That said, I think that I am guilty of having evoked the idea of SSRed ditches along roads - which in my mind are not exactly the irrigation ditches of PB - and thus derailed the thread partially too.

You need a timeout.

 

[Robin Reeve]

You need a timeout.

The irrigation ditches around Bénouville and Ranville are not polders.
Nor are they just ditches along roads - which is the secondary topic that I initiated and which derailed slightly the thread.
What did I write that implied that I need a timeout?

 

[Gordon]

Sorry, should have been more clear that I was being sarcastic about your having diverted the thread from irrigation ditches to roadside ditches/verges.

I'm gonna go dig my own ditch and lie down in it now ...

 

[von Marwitz]

I'm gonna go dig my own ditch and lie down in it now ...

Is it wet or dry. What about the EC? If frigid, you may end up Unarmed...

von Marwitz

 

[Gordon]

Is it wet or dry. What about the EC? If frigid, you may end up Unarmed...

von Marwitz

EC are wet with heavy rain although the last WC DR stopped the rain (at least for now). Not frigid.

 

[xenovin]

Here are some road side ditches in Tunisia. I like the infantry protection idea and pretty sure wheeled vehicles are not crossing or at least taking a bog check.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Here are some road side ditches in Tunisia. I like the infantry protection idea and pretty sure wheeled vehicles are not crossing or at least taking a bog check.

Not so sure about that, my 1940s Willy's wouldn't have even slowed down for a ditch like that.

The "infantry protection" notion also bears some scrutiny. You don't have to be able to get bullets through cover in order to break a squad. Just the sound of bullets snapping overhead, or splashing on the rim of the ditch, could be enough to rout them. If you 'feel' exposed to physical danger, you are more likely to 'act' as if you are.....

 

[mgmasl]

I don´t like irritation ditches…

 

[von Marwitz]

Here are some road side ditches in Tunisia. I like the infantry protection idea and pretty sure wheeled vehicles are not crossing or at least taking a bog check.
View attachment 10379

Well, in my perception, that ain't a ditch but merely a slightly lowered road-bank with a small rampart (Is that the correct term? I am not a native speaker...).

This is what comes to my mind if I think of a "typical" road-side ditch:



Of course, there exists a vast variety of what could be called road-side ditch. That makes it difficult to capture for ASL terrain rules. Which would make an added argument for handling the specific type of road-side ditch that a scenario designer envisions by means of an SSR.

von Marwitz

 

[jrv]

Here are some road side ditches in Tunisia. I like the infantry protection idea and pretty sure wheeled vehicles are not crossing or at least taking a bog check.

The car you drive would have problems with that. Military vehicles would hardly notice. That is within the bounds of ordinary open ground.

JR

 

[xenovin]

I’d like to see you drive a 1940s truck through the 5-foot ditch with little problem.

The car you drive would have problems with that. Military vehicles would hardly notice. That is within the bounds of ordinary open ground.

JR

 

[jrv]

I’d like to see you drive a 1940s truck through the 5-foot ditch with little problem.

A 1940s, military truck. Meet the deuce-and-a-half:

It would drive over, not through. It might take a minute or two to find a lower spot. Ok, this one is stuck.

JR

 

[bprobst]

Those polders would be technically better represented by ASL Swamp, though you might not be sinking in on the meadow parts of a polder as in actual swamp.

ASL swamp is PTO-only terrain, and is a 1-level LOS obstacle.

ASL marsh can be found anywhere, and is a 0.5-level LOS hindrance (sort of, usually, not always well-defined).

The terrain in the photo is pretty clearly neither of those. It might be "marsh that is not a hindrance", but that pre-supposes that the polder is as difficult to move through as marsh, which I don't know is true or not. ASL irrigation ditches are not much of an obstacle to (infantry) movement but do offer TEM, and I have trouble accepting either of those things to be true of the terrain in the photograph.

 

[bprobst]

Here are some road side ditches in Tunisia.

Where? You seem to have posted a picture of a perfectly ordinary flat, straight road.

 

[von Marwitz]

ASL swamp is PTO-only terrain, and is a 1-level LOS obstacle.

ASL marsh can be found anywhere, and is a 0.5-level LOS hindrance (sort of, usually, not always well-defined).

You are absolutely right. It was marsh that I had in mind. In case of Polders, one would have to treat it as creating no LOS hindrance.

von Marwitz

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I’d like to see you drive a 1940s truck through the 5-foot ditch with little problem.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

ASL swamp is PTO-only terrain, and is a 1-level LOS obstacle.

ASL marsh can be found anywhere, and is a 0.5-level LOS hindrance (sort of, usually, not always well-defined)

SSRs make anything possible, anytime.

 

[Justiciar]

ASL swamp is PTO-only terrain, and is a 1-level LOS obstacle.

Hmmm, you must use a different rulebook or have a house rule down under: "G7.2 Swamp is always a two-level obstacle..."