The Iraq war, seen from the other side.

Kraut

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I don't know how many of you already know this side (http://www1.iraqwar.ru/?userlang=en ), it's a russian side that claims to have access to GRU information and recently opened an english section. I've heard from several sources that the side and it's informations are quite reliable but of course it's up to everybody to decide whether he trusts them or not ;)
They publish daily reports on the Iraq war, mostly datailed and interesting to read. Here is the report from today:

The situation on the US-Iraqi front is characterized by gradual reduction of American offensive activity. After the 3rd Mechanized Infantry Division tank forces had marched towards Baghdad and its vanguards reached the city from south and south-west, engineering fortification of their positions began, which indicates the end of the current stage of the campaign as well as the loss of offensive potential of American forces and necessity to rest and regroup. It is supposed that during the next two days the American command will attempt local strikes in order to improve and extend their positions on the south and, especially, south-west approaches to Baghdad (crossing the Baghdad – Samarra roadway) and begin bringing fresh forces from Kuwait.

As we supposed, during the last night Americans were moving 101st Airborne Division troops to help the 1st Mechanized Division that captured the airport of Baghdad yesterday morning. About 80 strike and transport helicopters and 500 marines were deployed there.

But all the efforts to reinforce the brigade with heavy armor failed as Iraqi started powerful artillery strikes at the transport routes and organized mobile firing groups on the roads. After reports about losing 3 tanks and 5 APCs on the route the American command had to pause the movement of the reinforcements by land.

Yesterday’s estimates of the forces concentrated here were overstated. After analysis of intercepted radio communications and reports of American commanders it was specified that at the airport there were only parts of the 1st brigade troops, up to 2 enforced battalions with the help of a self-propelled artillery division 3 thousand soldiers and officers strong, 60 tanks and about 20 guns.

Another battalion enforced with artillery crossed the Baghdad-Amman roadway and came into position at the crossroads to the south of the airport, near Abu-Harraib.

Soldiers of the 1st Mechanized Brigade spent almost all the last night in chemical protection suits, waiting for Iraqi to use their “untraditional weapons”. Apart from that, their positions were constantly shot with artillery and machine gun fire. The brigade commanders report that the soldiers are ultimately dead-beat, and are constantly requesting reinforcements.

About 10 armored units including 4 tanks were lost in this area yesterday. Up to 9 men were killed, about 20 wounded, at least 25 reported missing. Moreover, the status of a patrol group that didn’t arrive at the airport remains unclear. It is supposed that it either moved away towards Khan-Azad and took defense there or got under an ambush and was eliminated. It is now being searched for.

The losses of Iraqi were up to 40 men killed, about 200 captured (including the airport technical personnel), 4 guns and 3 tanks.

Currently American reconnaissance squadrons are trying to dissect the suburban defenses with local sallies.

At the same time, marine troops are approaching the south-east borders of Baghdad. Their vanguard units reached the outskirts of Al-Jessir and immediately tried to capture the bridge over a feeder of the Tigris, the Divala river, but were met with fire and stopped.

Commander of the 1st Expeditionary Marine Squadron colonel Joe Dowdy was deposed yesterday morning. As was revealed, the colonel was deposed “…for utmost hesitation and loss of the initiative during the storm of An-Nasiriya…”. This way the coalition command in Qatar found an excuse for their military faults by that town. The “guilt” of the colonel was in his refusing to enter the town for almost 3 days and trying to suppress Iraqi resistance with artillery and aviation, trying to avoid losses. As a result, the command additionally had to move the 15th squadron of colonel Tomas Worldhouser there, who had to storm the ferriages for almost 6 days, with about 20 of his soldiers killed, 130 wounded and 4 missing. The 1st Expeditionary Squadron lost no men at An-Nasiriya, but 3 marines died, as were reported, “by inadvertency” and about 20 soldiers got wounded.

Despite the fact that marines were able to capture one of the bridges at the south outskirt of An-Nasiriya, the ferriage across the Euphrates is still risky. Fights in the city are going on. The American command has to cover the ferriage with a company of marines enforced with tanks and artillery, up to 400 soldiers and officers strong. Every column passing across the bridge gets shot by Iraqis from the left bank and the marines have to cover it by setting smoke screens and delivering constant fire. A brigade group of the 101st Airborne Division is engaged in the combat but is unable to break the Iraqi resistance. Throughout the day 3 men were wounded, 1 soldier reported missing.

In An-Najaf, after 3 days of gunning and bombardment the 101st Airborne Division marines were able to advance towards the center of the town and are now fighting in the market region.

It is reported that 2 marines were killed and 4 wounded. 1 APC was destroyed with a RPG. At the same time there arrived information that during the last night most of the garrison (up to 3 thousand Republican Guardians of the “Medina” Division) left the town on cars for Karbala. Only militia remained in the town, covering the withdrawing main forces and continuing to resist.

All the attempts of American marines to advance into Al-Khindiya failed. After 1 APC from the vanguard was knocked out and more than 20 RPG shots at the column, the marines withdrew at their original positions. 2 soldiers were wounded and evacuated rearwards. American intelligence believes that no more than a battalion of Iraqis are defending the town. Their resistance remains, despite that the town has already been under siege for 8 days.

Americans were unable to capture the left-bank part of Al-Hillah. The 82nd Airborne Division troops are only capable of keeping a narrow “corridor” – across the outskirt of Al-Hillah with the bridge over the Euphrates. There is constant shooting in the town. Throughout the day in this region the coalition lost 1 men killed and 4 wounded.

A similar “corridor” is kept by marines in the Al-Kut town. But there is information that allows us to suppose that Americans were pushed away from the town last night. Continuous requests of artillery and aviation support and coordinates transmitted to the artillery HQ indicate that the combat occurred in immediate proximity to the American positions. 4 times ambulance helicopters flew into this region, and there hasn’t still been a report from the commander of the marine group that defends this area, which may indicate that he hasn’t yet have full information about his units.

The situation at Al-Diwaniyah, where a heavy combat has been going on for 3 days, has become a little clearer. Currently all American forces have been pushed away from the town. Early morning an American helicopter was attacked. Its crew died. Another helicopter was shot down and had to land to the east from Karbala. Information about its crew is being obtained.

The overall situation in the central region of Iraq is characterized by gradual reduction of the coalition activity and change to active defense. But extraordinary dispersion of the ground forces, their fragmentation (the biggest group now contains up to 12 thousand troops) create advantageous preconditions for Iraqi counter-attacks, but the air superiority of the coalition severely complicate such projects. If, due to weather conditions, the coalition forces lose their air support, it may have very dramatic consequences.

At the south of Iraq the British advance on Basra is losing its strength as well and may already stop during the next two days. Currently the British have been unable to achieve any serious success on this direction, and fights are only occur at the outskirts of the city.

The British command had to admit that it had underestimated the strength of Iraqi resistance and was unable to reveal the structure and number of Basra defenders fully and operatively. Currently in the city and the Fao peninsula, according to the British data, about 5 thousand of regular Iraqi military forces are defending (parts of 51st Mechanized Division of general Khaled Khatim Saleh al-Hashimi) and up to 5-7 thousand volunteers and militiamen. At the same time, British hopes for an armed Shia revolt have been ruined. The Shia leaders in Iran called their Iraqi coreligionists to fight against English and American “satanists” and “Zionists”, leaving British without their “best card” in the plan of capturing Basra. 3 men were killed and 8 wounded yesterday.

At the North of Iraq desultory fightings between Kurdish troops “peshmerga” and Iraqi forces are going on. The morning messages about the town Kalak captured have not been confirmed yet, and according to the radio surveillance data the actions only take place at the approaches of the town. For now, Kurds are mainly busy robbing neighboring villages and transporting the stolen goods into their basic regions. According to American special forces which have recently been replaced here, sometimes after capturing a village up to half of the Kurdish squadron abandon their positions. They load stolen property into captured cars and leave for their homes to be back next morning for new salvage.

But apart from clear marauding of “peshmerga”, the coalition command has more and more problems with keeping the decent moral level of their fighting soldiers. Spite and irritability are growing even in British troops, which were always “correct enough” towards the civilians on the occupied territories. In increasing frequency British soldiers show violence and rudeness towards civilians. At a recent consultation at the British HQ, a representative of the military police command pointed at the fact that even actions of arresting people suspected in underground activities occur with unnecessary violence and publicity, and resemble rather intimidation than special police operations. The command issued a special order regarding the required behavior in the occupied regions, but even after it had been published a few analogous incidents were registered.

An event that had happened 5 days before also received publicity at the coalition HQ. During a night “cleanup” in one of suburban houses near An-Nasiriya three marines shot a man and afterwards raped and shot his wife. The command got information about this accident from one of its informers. After interrogation the marines were sent to Qatar for additional investigations.

In increasing frequency commanders find things belonging to Iraqis in their soldiers’ rucksacks. The soldiers are discontent of their commanders attempting to cease this practice, and call those items “war salvage”. Currently the command is preparing a special order regarding this issue.
 

Cheetah772

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I don't know if it's true, but...

The one thing I am most interested in that russian website is the picture of a destroyed M1A1 Abrams Tank. Is it even authenatic?

It's hard to believe that it can be destroyed by the Iraqi forces.

I've heard that even with RPGs aimed point-blank, they couldn't dent M1A1 tanks. After all, they're designed with blast reactive armor, and nuclear protection. Moreover, it has a classified chemical formula that helps with density and thickness of its armor.

I think the only thing that can destroy that tank is:

1.) kill the crew.
2.) place a denonating bomb under its tracks to disable it.
3.) By heavy artillery (155mm can pretty much kill off a tank easily)
4.) An Iraqi tank succeeded in ambushing the tanks at point-blank

I acknowledge I'm not a military expert, but can anybody especially like Deltapooh vertify is this an accurate picture? If so, then why hasn't it been mentioned by the liberal media, I'm sure, they would love to rip the Pentagon and White House with so-called "constructive criticism" of having a high-tech tank blown off by a ragtag enemy soldier!

Dan
 

MattyB

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I have heard reports from CNN/military experts that their is a degree of vulnerability for on tanks from behind. I had also heard again from former US military that the Iraqis to have Russian Anti-Tank weapons. I wouldn't think we would lose many, but given those 2 factors and the full rush it wouldn't be surprising to me for them to get a couple tanks.
 

Kraut

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Originally posted by Cheetah772
The one thing I am most interested in that russian website is the picture of a destroyed M1A1 Abrams Tank. Is it even authenatic?

It's hard to believe that it can be destroyed by the Iraqi forces.
The M1 and even the M1A2 are far from indestructible, you have to remember that the Iraqi army is not only armed with RPGs but also still has tanks, AT-guns, ATGMs etc, all able to destroy armor especially if they penetrate a weak point (top, back).
As for the RPGs: some of the modern russian RPGs are specially designed to penetrate armor, I don't know whether the Iraqis have these modern ammunition but these grenades are compatible with the standart RPG-launcher so it's at least a possibility.
Here on german TV we already saw several pictures and short clips of destroyed M1s so the US has at least lost some.
 

Dan Neely

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All modern MBTs have much heavier forward armor than on the sides and even thinner protection to the rear, where the plate is thick enough to stop small arms and light AT weapons, crew protection from anything heavier is done by putting the engine between the rear of the tank and the crew compartment. While this does give the crew a good chance of surviving the hit it does rather unfortunate things to the tanks operability. Also IIRC the only M1s we've lost so far have been disabled, not catasptrophicly killed.
 

Chuck?

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I found it interesting that one day the Iraqi mouthpiece was saying that the American forces were 100 miles away from Baghdad ... yet the next day he claimed Iraqi forces had retaken the Baghdad airport from Americans.
 

Cheetah772

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Originally posted by Chuck
I found it interesting that one day the Iraqi mouthpiece was saying that the American forces were 100 miles away from Baghdad ... yet the next day he claimed Iraqi forces had retaken the Baghdad airport from Americans.
LOL,

I hadn't noticed that one, Chuck.

Good one, kid.

Dan :thumup:
 

tigersqn

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As Kraut has said, any tank can be destroyed if hit in the right spot with the right weapon. I believe however that any M1A1s that have been taken out by Iraqi troops have merely been disabled; probably from hits to the engine compartment. I doubt if you'll see an M1A1 Abrams with it's turret blown off.
 

Kraut

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Originally posted by tigersqn
I doubt if you'll see an M1A1 Abrams with it's turret blown off.
Me too, the reason why especially WW2 tanks had their turret blown was because of a fatal hit into the ammo compartment resulting in a huge explosion ripping the tank apart. In M1 tanks the ammo is seperated from the crew compartment and if hit the explosion will be directed through specially designed armor plate on top of the M1. So even if the M1 is destroyed the survivability of the crew is pretty good.
 

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The Marines did loose an M1A1 tank yesterday, or the day before I believe. No casualties. We've lost several Abrams tanks. The only crew fatalities I know of is when a Marine tank crew. The driver was shot and killed, and the tank fell off a bridge and into the river, drowning the crew.

The M1 series tanks have a very clear, but highly classified vulnerable area. Yet, even when struck at this point, the crew is likely to survive. That's the only real important thing. We can fly tank replacements in.

As for the reports from iraqwar.ru, I don't view it as a credible source. 86% of Russians recently polled want the US to loose the war. That's higher than any other European nation. I highly doubt the Russian news agencies can be objective in their reporting.

Iraq's General Sahaf said the RGFC had taken the airport and reporters would be get a tour of the site within an hour of his statement. That hasn't occurred. His comments are so off, it's becoming a joke.
 

Kraut

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Originally posted by Deltapooh
As for the reports from iraqwar.ru, I don't view it as a credible source. 86% of Russians recently polled want the US to loose the war. That's higher than any other European nation. I highly doubt the Russian news agencies can be objective in their reporting.
I am pretty sure 95% of all US-americans want the USA to win the Iraq war, if you apply the same logic here than you have to highly doubt that the US news agencies can objectively report on this war ;)
Or were the CNN reports that Umm Kasar was taken after 1 hour into the war and Basra was taken after one day true ?
 
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I think that site is going to get hit with a hack attack soon. I hate sites like that. "Reporters beaten and starved by American troops".....come on, that mnakes me sick. Maybe Russia is a little pissed off that Americans found GPS systems sold to Iraq from Russia..............ypu I believe soo.
 

Kraut

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Originally posted by Eagle Of Death
I think that site is going to get hit with a hack attack soon. I hate sites like that. "Reporters beaten and starved by American troops".....come on, that mnakes me sick. Maybe Russia is a little pissed off that Americans found GPS systems sold to Iraq from Russia..............ypu I believe soo.
Are you thinking about the independet israeli (!!) journalist who sneaked into Iraq to report independantly, got arrested by US troops because they suppected him ouf spying, tortured for two days and than released without an excuse or something ?
That story is true, I saw an interview with the journalist on german TV so what's wrong with reporting the truth ??
 
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Nothing is wrong with the truth...maybe the guy was spying-or drawing maps in the sand. Either way, I am sick of all the crap that these other supposed "allies" say about the US. IMO this war is right. As for the Russians go, selling military gear to Saddam was pretty stupid. The french...no comment. Germany, well from what I have read they are starting to see it our way. However, you are from Germany, maybe you can tell us what its like over there.
 

Kraut

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Originally posted by Eagle Of Death
Germany, well from what I have read they are starting to see it our way. However, you are from Germany, maybe you can tell us what its like over there.
Here in Germany 85% oppose the war in Iraq, our government is opposed to the war in Iraq while the opposition seems to tend more towards supporting the USA. Their position is not quite clear yet, many opposition politicans seem to support the USA but there is still an ongoing debate because most of their basis dont support the position of their representants.
 
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From what has been in the news lately about mass amounts of dead bodies in warhouses I hope other countries begin to see what Saddam is all about. I am not a "know-it-all", however, I have done extensive research on Saddam and his family. This guy is sick...almost Hitler sick but with a modern touch. Saddam needs to be taken out and I really do believe that when he is gone and when we do find alot of evidence of WMD, the rest of the world will understand. Remember, there is only so much that we (the people) only know. Governments know alot more than we do. In respect, I can say that Americans do really appriciate the help we get when it come to arrests of terrorists. I know Germany is always arresting people in the mean while helping us.
 

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Originally posted by Eagle Of Death
From what has been in the news lately about mass amounts of dead bodies in warhouses I hope other countries begin to see what Saddam is all about. I am not a "know-it-all", however, I have done extensive research on Saddam and his family. This guy is sick...almost Hitler sick but with a modern touch. Saddam needs to be taken out and I really do believe that when he is gone and when we do find alot of evidence of WMD, the rest of the world will understand. Remember, there is only so much that we (the people) only know. Governments know alot more than we do. In respect, I can say that Americans do really appriciate the help we get when it come to arrests of terrorists. I know Germany is always arresting people in the mean while helping us.
Yeah I believe that is more than likely part of an exchange of soldiers remains from the Iran-Iraq war....

Wait until its fact and not speculation.
 

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Originally posted by Kraut

I am pretty sure 95% of all US-americans want the USA to win the Iraq war, if you apply the same logic here than you have to highly doubt that the US news agencies can objectively report on this war
Or were the CNN reports that Umm Kasar was taken after 1 hour into the war and Basra was taken after one day true ?
Did the Coalition forces say the Umm Kasar was clear, or secure? If my memory serves me correctly, the media was the one reporting the situation as all clear. In any case it was a mistake.

If you listened to the media after that first week, you would see they were anything, but reporting pro-USA news.

Objectively reporting clearly doesn't exist with iraqwar.ru. If most of their reports were accurate, the Coalition would likely be on the retreat. It's about as the Iraqis. They claim things are bad one. Then when we do something that discredit those reports, iraqwar.ru simply seeks to discredit it or ignores the developments all together, looking toward the next inaccurate situation.

I don't get my news from one or two sources. Ever since the iraqwar.ru link was posted, I read it daily along with many of news links. My opinion is drawn from those. Most importantly is the level of news coverage. I can turn on MSNBC or CNN and watch the situation develop. The troops who are suppose to be getting their butts kicked looked that way the first week of the war. Today, you see smiles. One of the company commanders from 3-7 CAV was smiling during the battle at the airport because the Iraqis were doing exactly what he wanted, coming out into the open so he could blast them. It's those images that convinces me we're in better shape.
 

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Originally posted by Deltapooh
As for the reports from iraqwar.ru, I don't view it as a credible source. 86% of Russians recently polled want the US to loose the war. That's higher than any other European nation. I highly doubt the Russian news agencies can be objective in their reporting.
Originally posted by Kraut

I am pretty sure 95% of all US-americans want the USA to win the Iraq war, if you apply the same logic here than you have to highly doubt that the US news agencies can objectively report on this war ;)
Or were the CNN reports that Umm Kasar was taken after 1 hour into the war and Basra was taken after one day true ?
Originally posted by Deltapooh


Did the Coalition forces say the Umm Kasar was clear, or secure? If my memory serves me correctly, the media was the one reporting the situation as all clear. In any case it was a mistake.
Kraut does not make any mention of the Coalition Forces reports, he simply used your own method of discrediting one news agency on another.
 

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Originally posted by Kraut


Here in Germany 85% oppose the war in Iraq, our government is opposed to the war in Iraq while the opposition seems to tend more towards supporting the USA. Their position is not quite clear yet, many opposition politicans seem to support the USA but there is still an ongoing debate because most of their basis dont support the position of their representants.
Isn't "Germans opposed to war" an oxymoron?

I saw a reporter in front of that burned out M1 the other night along with a member of that unit. The tank was in-fact disabled by a RPG (tread hit) and later C-4’d to its current condition by U.S. forces as that unit was moving on and they couldn’t leave the tank behind.

Those of you not from this country need to know that, for the most part, our media has a strong liberal bias. So, early on, when there were, ahem, “mass” protests around the country, the reporting on the war was on the negative side. Now that these anti-war protests are being out done by PRO U.S. marches/events, the reporting is more optimistic. All news broadcasts need to be taken with a grain of salt (some, like the website mentioned in this thread need a BLOCK of salt), but I do feel that, for the most part, our reporting has been fairly accurate.

Did see MSNBC today show a “huge” protest in Oakland…think I counted about 30 people. I’m heading there tomorrow for business, so if I see any of these people on the side of the road, I’ll be sure to stick my hand out of my Hertz rental car window and tell these people they are #1 for you all ;). <picture of rude hand gesture not included>
 
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