The Hobbit Movie

Dr Zaius

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

If he was so omnipotent, why didn't he just destroy the Ring and be done with it?
There's a whole discussion about that in the book where Gandalf veto's the idea, explaining that Bombadil would never willingly take the ring because he would simply not understand the need. He would likely lose it or forget about it. Furthermore, Gandalf clearly states that, even if Sauron doesn't get the ring back, he doesn't believe they can stand for long against the power of the dark lord. They need to destroy the ring in order to win, otherwise Sauron will simply crush them and find the ring later. And with the whole world under his control he would eventually crush even Bombadil.

Wikipedia said:
At the Council of Elrond, Tom Bombadil is referred to by Galdor as being unable to deal with a siege by Sauron "unless such power is in the earth itself", implying that the character may be a manifestation of Middle-earth's inherent properties. This connection explains Bombadil's seeming obliviousness to the transient concerns of mortals, as evidenced in Gandalf's concern that Tom would not understand the importance of the Ring, and hence lose it, if it were entrusted to him. The idea that Tom's songs are always "stronger", as he proclaims in his rhyme, as well as his title of Master, further suggest Bombadil is the warden or avatar of the nearly invincible aspects of the planet itself.
Entrusting the ring to Bombadil was not an option that would have secured victory.

Michael Dorosh said:
Likewise, why didn't the eagles just fly the Ringbearer to the mountain and drop the silly thing in? Instead of just showing up at the end as taxis?
This is a point that is often brought up, but this course of action doesn't really pass muster for several reasons. First of all, throughout the trilogy Tolkein mentions that Morder is a realm of watchers, spies, and of Evil that does not sleep. Attempting to simply enter Sauron's domain by air would likely be every bit as dangerous as by foot. There are hidden spirits of great power, such as those that guard the entry to the Tower of Minas Ithil, the undead legions that guard the Morgul Vale, and the ever-watchful Nazgul, who can sense the approach of the ring.

Attempting to fly right in the front door, while perhaps possible, would almost certainly expose the intruders to Sauron's immediate wrath. And with the formidable powers at Sauron's disposal, he would be able to mentally dominate or physically assault such a fragile invasion force. Although the movie made it look short, it's a very long distance from the border of Morder to Mount Doom. And once Sauron became aware of the intruders, which would likely be almost immediately, the chances of successfully making it all the way to the mountain would diminish with each passing moment.

No, the only way to get the ring to the mountain would be to sneak it in. Once the ring had arrived atop Mount Doom, Sauron would have only moments to react, which is a key part of the plan. Flying the ring in on wing would likely just deliver it to the dark lord on a silver platter.

Michael Dorosh said:
Pardon me for saying it, but I'm all for having Tolkien get a little bit of help from script writers that are better than he was.
That's almost funny. Hollywood can't even produce a decent B movie these days.
 

Redwolf

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

Also, the Eagles carrying the ring might end up with a hostile takeover and now you got wraiths on eagles with a ring.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

There's a whole discussion about that in the book where Gandalf veto's the idea, explaining that Bombadil would never willingly take the ring because he would simply not understand the need. He would likely lose it or forget about it. Furthermore, Gandalf clearly states that, even if Sauron doesn't get the ring back, he doesn't believe they can stand for long against the power of the dark lord. They need to destroy the ring in order to win, otherwise Sauron will simply crush them and find the ring later. And with the whole world under his control he would eventually crush even Bombadil.



Entrusting the ring to Bombadil was not an option that would have secured victory.



This is a point that is often brought up, but this course of action doesn't really pass muster for several reasons. First of all, throughout the trilogy Tolkein mentions that Morder is a realm of watchers, spies, and of Evil that does not sleep. Attempting to simply enter Sauron's domain by air would likely be every bit as dangerous as by foot. There are hidden spirits of great power, such as those that guard the entry to the Tower of Minas Ithil, the undead legions that guard the Morgul Vale, and the ever-watchful Nazgul, who can sense the approach of the ring.

Attempting to fly right in the front door, while perhaps possible, would almost certainly expose the intruders to Sauron's immediate wrath. And with the formidable powers at Sauron's disposal, he would be able to mentally dominate or physically assault such a fragile invasion force. Although the movie made it look short, it's a very long distance from the border of Morder to Mount Doom. And once Sauron became aware of the intruders, which would likely be almost immediately, the chances of successfully making it all the way to the mountain would diminish with each passing moment.

No, the only way to get the ring to the mountain would be to sneak it in. Once the ring had arrived atop Mount Doom, Sauron would have only moments to react, which is a key part of the plan. Flying the ring in on wing would likely just deliver it to the dark lord on a silver platter.
The movie was 16 hours long and obviously didn't explain any of this well enough to me. Epic fail.

I still don't get the giant eyeball thing either. But at least George Lucas wasn't writing the dialogue.
 

Palantir

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

Mr.Bombadil:
Based on all I've read from Tolkien I go with Tom being an Ainur gone "native" line of thought. Ainur are Valar and "The Valar" were simply the 15 most powerful Ainur (including Melkor). In its making he became so enamored with Middle Earth that he stayed- but was so "above & out of touch" with the interactions going on in the rest of Middle Earth that he was untrustworthy.

The most useless character in the history of fiction.
Since Bombadil had a chapter to himself & all those strange quirks I'm sure Tolkien at one time had an idea for a background storyline to flesh him out. But once the fans started questioning & pushing Tolkien on who Tom really was he just let it go to never be disclosed. So yes, once Tolkien failed to follow up on what Tom was & doing there he became a throw away character.

Likewise, why didn't the eagles just fly the Ring bearer to the mountain and drop the silly thing in? .
Then why even write the story? If you go that route you might as well go back to - why didn't Elrond just PUSH Isildur into the Crack of Doom when he had the chance once Isildur claimed the ring for himself? Even then Elrond knew the horrors that would come with the Ring's survival. By doing that Tolkien could then have skipped even writing the LotR and saved us all the trouble of reading it. :(

Pardon me for saying it, but I'm all for having Tolkien get a little bit of help from script writers that are better than he was.
Since he was the guy who really put the fantasy Elf/Orc stories onto the world stage and created the story AS he wrote it he didn't have the last 60 years to lay around thinking up multiple alternate "better" endings for movie goers or use test-groups to pick the best storyline. :) {Edit- I dare any scriptwriter to out do Tolkien's writting in the Silmarillion.}

The movie was 16 hours long and obviously didn't explain any of this well enough to me. Epic fail.
That was your fault for not reading all the books Mike! :p

I still don't get the giant eyeball thing either..
There was quite a discussion by the writers on how to represent Sauron in the movies and make him a "character" the audience could relate to. If they gave him his huge armored human form as shown in the prologue it was almost a given that he'd have to come out & physically fight which would have killed the movie & made Jackson look like a fool. Which Jackson almost went with even filming the Sauron vs. Aragon fight sequence- they later pasted that large War-troll over Sauron as it was the only creature big enough to cover the huge size of Sauron.

Now- based on Tolkien’s own writings Sauron could take human form as a blackened burning body but he didn't go with that book-wise for whatever reason. Since Sauron was referred to as the "Red Eye," "Lidless Eye," "Great Eye" etc. Jackson went with that. They had to make the eye BIG and viewable to give it a sense of massive evil. It would have been funny if they had shown it as a normal eye hovering over a large empty chair. I'd have gone with a shadowed "weakened" burning body with red flaming eyes roaming the top floor of his tower. :thumup:
 
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Dr Zaius

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

As for the debate on how Sauron should appear, I wrote about that a while back on my blog.
 

Palantir

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

Continuing the probable/possible actors carousel for The Hobbit.

Is this guy, Sylvester McCoy (Dr. Who #7) finally the new Bilbo?

Seems a bit strange to select a 66 year old to play the youthful Bilbo (for a Hobbit at age 51) when Ian Holms at is 78 is considered too old... I don't see it happening. But maybe he's up for a major Dwarven role instead.


http://www.screenrush.co.uk/article/fichearticle_gen_carticle=18499309.html

I thought it would be David Tennant (Dr, Who #10) but he's just started shooting The Decoy Bride in Scotland. For my money he would make a better Bilbo than McCoy.
 
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Palantir

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

Is Sept 15 2010 the "do or die" date for the movies?

MGM plans emerge, possible ‘Hobbit’ progress
August 19th, 2010 by MrCere View Comments

Variety and The Hollywood Reporter are reporting progress on the MGM debt situation that has famously kept two ‘Hobbit’ films progressing and have stalled a greenlight on the films for years now.

THR details the plans to make the nearly $4 billion dissapear here while the Variety story here details a Wednesday conference call involving debt holders. A lot of things need to fall into place but both stories indicate a September 15 deadline is being respected, which a source told TORn would be met, unlike previous deadlines which have previously been extended. Thanks to friend Kristin Thompson for the heads up on the Variety article

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2010/08/19/37942-mgm-plans-emerge-possible-hobbit-progress/
 

Dr Zaius

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

The concern here is that we'll eventually get a movie, but it won't be the movie that should have or could have been made due to funding limitations. I think this movie is already destined to be less than it could have been due to the departure of del Toro.
 

Palantir

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

This might interest you then.

James Cameron’s Advice To GDT On The Hobbit: “Get Out Of That Thing”

“I was telling him for a long time to get out of that thing because there is only room for one captain on the ship,” Cameron says....


http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2010/08/14/37888-james-camerons-advice-to-gdt-on-the-hobbit-get-out-of-that-thing/

I don't know, I think once the movie got started Jackson would have let Del Toro be in charge & just make the thing. Any problems would have come from Walsh & Boyens.
 

Palantir

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

Well, Sept 15th came & went without huge Hobbit news.
The only information that came out concerned MGM getting another extension on their debt: which is good news in itself for the movie getting made.

So today we have this tidbit of information showing that things are happening with The Hobbit Movie behind the scenes.

From the Wellington Dominion Post:
View attachment 31151

Thats about the short & tall of it! :p

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2010/09/22/38664-wanted-tall-or-short-people-for-the-hobbit/

And by the way, since it is Sept 22nd-
Happy Birthday to Bilbo & Frodo in the Undying Land!

View attachment 31152
 

Palantir

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

The movie takes yet another hit, this time because of the Unions.

"The International Federation of Actors, along with the Screen Actors Guild, is discouraging actors to work on the film because of the non-union labor in New Zealand. This is serious business for SAG: Essentially, actors who work on the film, like McKellen and Weaving, would be in violation of the union's bylaws and subject to expulsion from the union."

But Peter Jackson is not taking it lying down:

"Jackson has threatened to move the filming to Eastern Europe, which would seem to lack the breathtaking vistas that made the "Lord of the Rings" films look like they really did take place in a fantasy world."

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/movie-talk-peter-jackson-running-into-union-trouble-on-the-hobbit.html

I could go with some darker vista's of Eastern Europe to represent the Misty Mt.s & Mirkwood as long as the movie gets made.
 

Dr Zaius

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

With everything this movie has stacked against it, it's becoming harder and harder to believe it isn't going to be a missed opportunity of epic proportions. Or just epic suck.
 

Redwolf

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

WTF business does an American union have to tell New Zealand actors in what union to be or not to be?
 

Palantir

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

Talk about a complete mess, while the actors might not work and the film might not be made in NZ they are STILL working on the Shire Location- an overhead shot of Bag Hill.

I want to see the plane thats going to lift that "set" to Eastern Europe.


View attachment 31220
 

Palantir

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

This is just lovely:

from WELLINGTON – Friday, 1 October 2010

{Some selected quotes}

"The MEAA has now admitted that their collective bargaining proposal is in fact, illegal, under New Zealand law. In Sir Peter Jackson’s opinion “The Hobbit is being punished with a boycott which is endangering thousands of NZ jobs and hundreds of millions of dollars of foreign income, for no good reason....This is about nothing more than leveraging our movie for politcal gain.”

"Sir Peter says...Therefore Wingnut Films pays NZ actors approx $1,200 per week more than his (or her) US counterpart.”... “The MEAA needs to stop playing games and to sit down at the negotiating table with SPADA. This needs to be resolved and quickly for everyone’s sake.”

Full story.
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2010/09/30/38874-media-release-peter-jackson-speaks-on-actor-boycott-of-the-hobbit/#more-38874

This might actually speed up the process to get the movie started. :)
 

Redwolf

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Re: The Hobbit Movie (stuff)

Bastard unions. They should make this illegal in the U.S., too.

All this union **** was great before the Internet but by now it's just extortion of the general population.
 
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