The Great War by Daniel McBride

[Bloodstar]

As I see Daniel is again on the forum so maybe he can answer some question or some other player who played this scenario...

I have read doc for scenario this afternoon and it looks quite interesting, good study and I have read many books about WW1 (BTW there are also many Napoleonic wargames in development, speaking of neglected theatres of war

http://www.west-civ.com/ for example this, sorry for little digression )

So back to The Great War - I was reading docs and I noticed that there is not mentioned a rule that I think should be there... So, in TOAW when you embark your unit, it is VERY fragile at least and whole division can be sunk by enemy warhips (I don't know is this happening 100% of time but it is devastating!) so when you apply rules from the docs of staying in the sea one turn before invasion etc. you must be 10-15 hexes from deembarkation site to allow enemy naval interdiction... So, I didn't checked but if it is too easy to sink enemy division with or without escort well maybe it is better to forbade attacks on enemy transports, only allow attack on escorts because we can imagine that transports are behind escorts either way...
----

Also, anyone played this scenario? Can you tell me overall how it went from the perspective of Central Powers? :smoke: Maybe a small AAR?


Mario

 

[Dan Neely]

Escorted troops will not take debilitating losses as long as the escorts win the naval engagement, so bring enough of an escort and you'll be fine. Basically this means that the CP can only conduct amphib assualts in the baltic, adriatic (before Italy enters), and in the turks 'private lakes'. The TE for it's part can do the same in the med and black sea.

I started a game with Jamiam but only got a few turns in before he was flued out. At anyrate that's what I assume happened. 3 weeks ago he was healthy but his family were all ill, since then my pings haven't gotten a responce. He and the other testers repeatedly thrashed the 1st ~3 months but the rest is terra incognita.

PS Stauffenberg, have you seen the thread I started on this scen a few days ago?

 

[Bloodstar]

Escorted troops will not take debilitating losses as long as the escorts win the naval engagement, so bring enough of an escort and you'll be fine. Basically this means that the CP can only conduct amphib assualts in the baltic, adriatic (before Italy enters), and in the turks 'private lakes'. The TE for it's part can do the same in the med and black sea.

I started a game with Jamiam but only got a few turns in before he was flued out. At anyrate that's what I assume happened. 3 weeks ago he was healthy but his family were all ill, since then my pings haven't gotten a responce. He and the other testers repeatedly thrashed the 1st ~3 months but the rest is terra incognita.

PS Stauffenberg, have you seen the thread I started on this scen a few days ago?

Thanks, Dan. Well, my fear for troops on transports was from some of my previous testing in "Fire in the East" when Soviets sunk my divisions (I tested to see what will happen if Soviet battleship attack my transport hehe, and there it goes 300 squads in the water)
I am still going like a cat over hot milk about this scenario because it's very big and I always like to play big scenarios but it's a commitment as well - but I think that this scenario is easier for playing than Fire in the East...
Sincce I know Balkans pretty well, it's rather strange that Austrians left border near Belgrade and Sabac so northern Serbian border almost unguarded, ok some unit's arriving but... I don't know is this according to mobilization schedules but there are almost no covering forces.
And there are plenty of Montenegrians there - it's a small country and they even now have only 500000 population and in this scenario their divisions are full of man... I know that Austrians have some faults in judging who to attack first Russia or Serbia but I think that they had some bigger forces there after their archduke was killed in Sarajevo and after they sought revenge for that. Hmmm, is there any website about OOB's of Austrians and Germans and etc??? Maybe Count Stauffenberg can tell us?


Mario

 

[Stauffenberg]

I think Dan covered the escorted amphib issue but playtesting will doubtless show the need for refinement on that. Basically, I wanted some sort of constraint on landing units all over the place as though it is WWII. The British at Gallipoli were ramming and beaching small freighters on beaches and had jury-rigged ramps on either side of the bow where the troops could run down into the water with a full load of gear. In one case the result was a massacre. But there are other issues in interdicting transports at sea: you have to spot them first and I have no idea if the recon values are making that hit or miss. And finally, if the CP interdicts an amphib convoy it always runs the risk of the round ending and having the fleet vulnerable to TE fleets in the area; in short they have alot to lose and have to have a fleet in being to force the Allied player into thinking twice before attempting to invade the Adriatic coast area, or northern Germany. These are my impressions but without playtesting nothing is certain.

My notebook packed in its screen, keyboard, and floppy drive and the dozens of WWI links I had are lost for now until I take it in to transfer the HD onto the new. But one site stands head and shoulders above any other I have seen: Jewison & Steiner's Austro-Hungarian Land Forces 1848-1918:

http://www.austro-hungarian-army.co.uk/

Also superb, and linked to the above, is Mick O'Shea's Imperial German Army site:

http://www.users.hunterlink.net.au/~maampo/militaer/milindex.html

Re Montenegro, I have different sources indicating there were at least 4 divisions, probably 5. Serbian divisions in 1914 had 16 btns total. Montenegro divisions in 1914 varied between 12 btns (only one) up to 16 so if I am off it is not by too much. Accounts I have read indicated they fought well. While I'm on this topic, Piero Falotti also has 5 divs for Montenegro although he and I differ quite a bit on unit TOEs. But I wanted to put in a plug for his work--quite the coincidence that his WWI opus appeared at the same time as mine. I would really have prefered to have 10 km scale as well but as a matter of personal taste I don't like various separate maps joined by roads and rail lines. I wanted the whole map as a unity. Again, personal taste. Piero has to be the most prolific and eclectic TOAW designer I've see. Do a scenario search at Rugged Defense and you will see what I mean. Ever heard of the Battle of Maida? Neither had I, but then my knowledge of military campaigns in 1806 is rather sketchy.

Dan, I missed the thread you mentioned and will have a look for it.

Finally, I'm sitting on TGW ver. 2.0 which features a complete overhaul and refinement of Russian forces compliments of Pavel Voylov. I was thinking I would wait for more playtesting feedback to make further changes, but perhaps I'll just post it as is soon.

Daniel

 

[Dicke Bertha]

Off topic as always; I searched Rugged Defense yesterady for some scenarios and itr struck me too that Piero (aka piero1971?) has created incredibly many scenarios! Never played any of his (but I am greatly thankful for your efforts, GiO is my favourite scenario) but I wonder how he has time for all the womanising... :laugh:

 

[Bloodstar]

Much appreciated your answer Daniel!

I find this rule satisfactory regarding naval, it brings tension and player needs to think twice, be it CP ot TE. Even if landing is not succesful, if CP lose much of naval units in Med. then TE can pick spots for landing at will and there are fe interesting choices for them.
Many thanks for links on these websites, great info!

Regarding Montenegrians - yes they fought well, they won also some battle against AH at Mojkovac mountain. I've hear from one Montenegrian that they killed 16000 AH soldiers and not a one Montenegrian was wounded Of course I don't believe in fantasy, they won but not like he said.... :whist: (well, I've heard many lies but this one was backed up by patriotical feelings so I just let him say this, in any way he was father of my friend so I didn't wanted to tell him that it was lie :dead: hehe)

Great to see that you are working on version 2.0 then I will wait this newer version to play it (ahh, I hope that it will be not harder for CP, I think that you mentioned that Russian divisions will be stronger uh, oh)

With all due respect to Mr. Falotti, I like your scenario better. Like you said it is really confusing looking at all this maps of Africa, today I've tried his scenario to see it, while I was looking at your scenario. Yes, it's bigger in terms of scale, and TO&E is hmmm... strange, HQ's with 1000 rifle squads that could be disbanded (hmmm... that's half divs strength there). Also, I don't like to see so many beaches in Prussia and Turkey unguarded. But, I guess that both scenarios are fun, but scenarios with 1100 unit's are hard to play.

Please let us know when version is up... If Pavel have befeed up Russian forces I don't know if CP have the chance of winning, I am also terrified at number of TE units in this version. I know that CP have the chance just because Italy, Rumania and partly Greece are not in the play from the start, but position is not really good, war on two fronts, TE freedom of maneuver in MED etc... Study is excellent however, it shows some situations, it would be cool to capture Suez with Turkey :devious: but as study shows their strength is weak.


Mario

 

[Bloodstar]

Daniel, is it possible to get version 2.0 for study ? - I promise that I will not distribute it to anyone...

I really like the scenario and would like to compare it with previous version before I start game with someone. If it is really soon and if you cannot send me, no problem. In any way my email on yahoo is fanfarelo@yahoo.co.uk if you decide to send me scenario. Some eager TE player could start with training of his units before Hun invasion hehe.


Mario

 

[Dan Neely]

Since we're only a month in, I'd be willing to restart my current game with Jamiam to try out a new version. If you're willing to release it, I'll ask him whenever he's over the flu.

PS, whenever you salvage your laptops HD, I'd also be interested in the links. I've managed to find a decent amount on the European fronts, but finding anything about the Ottomans more detailed than "Galipoli. Lawrence of Arabia."'s been a snipehunt.

 

[Bloodstar]

I started one hot seat game against myself and choosed invasion of Belgium for CP and TE.
Belgium units are withdrawn except two fortress unit. I eliminated one but other in Namur didn't retreated as it said in docs (will be reduced following turn (??)... Maybe I am missing something here? I attacked according to rule, but this program don't know, it's honour rule, and it is here irrelevant. Maybe a bug?


Mario

 

[Felix]

If you want an awesome reference book on the First World War, you can't go past John Ellis' "The World War I Databook: The Essential Facts and Figures for All the Combatants". I think that Stauffenberg may have mentioned this before, but just in case you haven't, I'd highly recommend it.

Amazon.com- World War 1 Databook

It includes not just the usual maps and weapons data, but more importantly, TOEs for most nations at various stages of the war, as well as production information and a short history of pretty much every combat division in the war.

I've got it, and it's worth every cent.

 

[gregb7]

Please do post it. You'll get that much more help that way. And I'm dying to play it

 

[Bloodstar]

If you want an awesome reference book on the First World War, you can't go past John Ellis' "The World War I Databook: The Essential Facts and Figures for All the Combatants". I think that Stauffenberg may have mentioned this before, but just in case you haven't, I'd highly recommend it.

Amazon.com- World War 1 Databook

It includes not just the usual maps and weapons data, but more importantly, TOEs for most nations at various stages of the war, as well as production information and a short history of pretty much every combat division in the war.

I've got it, and it's worth every cent.

Yeah, great Felix, thanks, and price is not too big (27$)...I will look for it.


Mario

 

[Bloodstar]

Please do post it. You'll get that much more help that way. And I'm dying to play it

Yes, it's another Daniel's masterpiece! He is really one of best TOAW and generally wargame designers because he is smart and intelligent and know how to put knowledge from books (history) into great gaming experience, and that really something. I hope that sometime in the future he would be able to get some $ for his work, it's deserved.

Only thing about this scenario that bothers me is that you must keep HQ's near your units becuse rate movement is related to this. Argh, there are lazy players like me who like to spread unit's in TOAW miles across the board. :laugh:


Mario

 

[Stauffenberg]

Kind words indeed, but Felix got it right re the WWI Databook--I thought it was Christmas when I spotted it in a used bookstore; that and a feeling of doom in knowing I would have to do WWI strategtic afterall. I believe Piero also used it but has gone deeper into certain OB areas. As I mentioned Pavel has redone the Russians, and Francois at RD will be going over the French; you can't expect one book to be perfect on all the details but the Databook came close.

If you want to have a look at 2.0 drop me an email and I'll send it--but be advised its not playable which is why I'm not posting it. Pavel is awol for a week and I need to thrash out this Bolshevik revolution item--Dan you are correct, it was a simple plug-in for now due to lack of events and possible brain burn-out at the time.

As for Piero womanising, I can't comment. All I know is that he's a virtual HAL 9000 cranking out obscure (but fascinating) battle scenarios at a phenomenal rate.

Daniel

 

[Stauffenberg]

I started one hot seat game against myself and choosed invasion of Belgium for CP and TE.
Belgium units are withdrawn except two fortress unit. I eliminated one but other in Namur didn't retreated as it said in docs (will be reduced following turn (??)... Maybe I am missing something here? I attacked according to rule, but this program don't know, it's honour rule, and it is here irrelevant. Maybe a bug?


Mario

No, not a bug exactly. More like I just flubbed it. Forgot about the fortresses for a TE invasion of Belgium entirely. Noted for 2.0.

D.

 

[Stauffenberg]

Since we're only a month in, I'd be willing to restart my current game with Jamiam to try out a new version. If you're willing to release it, I'll ask him whenever he's over the flu.

PS, whenever you salvage your laptops HD, I'd also be interested in the links. I've managed to find a decent amount on the European fronts, but finding anything about the Ottomans more detailed than "Galipoli. Lawrence of Arabia."'s been a snipehunt.

I wondered why James had disappeared.
I'll send the links along when I get it sorted out. I'm pretty relentless on the net in digging out useful sites but drew the same blank you did on the Ottomans.Osprey Men-at-Arms series has a really nice little issue on the Ottoman Army 1914-18 if you haven't seen it; as usual, the series is picture-heavy, which is nice, but OB and TOE rather light. Another area I drew a blank on, quite surprising, was detailed OB info on the Italian Army in WWI. I ended up using the databook only for that but will be asking Piero about adding his additional detail on the Italians. Now, if I could smoke out a Greek, Bulgarian, Romanian, and Turkish TOAW player(s), I'd be home free. I mentioned elsewhere a few months ago that I stumbled on a Polish TOAW group working on all sorts of projects and with a slick and very active TOAW forum, all in Polish of course. So you never know.

D.

 

[Ben Turner]

Now, if I could smoke out a Greek, Bulgarian, Romanian, and Turkish TOAW player(s), I'd be home free.

I seem to recall way back at Matrix there was a guy called "ARIS" who was apparently Greek. This was before the place exploded after 11th September so he presumably played TOAW.

 

[JAMiAM]

Actually...*I* haven't been sick, but everyone around me has been. And, of course, they didn't have the consideration to all be sick at once. Oh no...they had to take turns being sick so that by the time the flu had run through the family, it had been five weeks. At the beginning of the month, my company changed ownership from the old investment partnership to a privately held corporation. Same boss that I've worked for over the last 13 years, but having to prep for the that changeover, was a pain in the rear for the obvious legal and accounting hoops that we had to jump through in order to assure the investors that they weren't getting stiffed. Top this off with having to advertise, hire, and train a new employee, who started the 28th, and you might have an idea of why I've been so scarce.

What little brainpower I was left with, at the end of the day was frittered away playing single player Rome: Total War, instead of attending to my TOAW responsibilities. My apologies to any and all that I delayed, but especially to Dan, as his concern, and patience, have been exemplary. My top priority over the next few days will be finishing up the 2nd round tourney, and then getting back to TGW with Dan, if you're still interested, that is...

 

[Dan Neely]

My top priority over the next few days will be finishing up the 2nd round tourney, and then getting back to TGW with Dan, if you're still interested, that is...

I am. I don't have as much time available as I did when we started but should be able to get out a turn/week.

 

[Bloodstar]

No, not a bug exactly. More like I just flubbed it. Forgot about the fortresses for a TE invasion of Belgium entirely. Noted for 2.0.

D.

Great, I will send you a email for version of 2.0 in progress, which I will just evaluate and not start a game until you release version that you are happy with. In any case I need few weeks to plan strategy

BTW, I had a second look at Falloti's scenario. It could be fun because detail is excellent and interesting choice to include Russian revolutions there etc... Lot's of unit's there and map is OK. What I found it strange that he included Mounted squads with sabres etc... then CP have 10000 repl. rate of Reconsaince Rifle Squads (and I didn't see that they need that much). Also, lot's of equipment from '30s and '40s (light AT and AT+ suads with 15 hard attack ) Maybe, is this for playbalance but I don't like the fact that I must play with modern equipment in WW1. Obviously great effort was spent to research OOB and then solution like this, bizarre... It ruins historical authencity.... I know that Norm said that attack value of 5 is not just 5 because if 2 bombers have same attack value or arty it is not the same, and then rate of fire is there etc... that's why some arty have lower attack value but better rate of fire...


Mario