The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom (do not create new DRM threads below)

[Slider6]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

Thanks for actually letting me express something.

You complain about blame culture then... says "the mess 'others' have created". Again, you really need to look hard at what you start, do yourself, before condeming those who "join in" with you. I've come to conclusion you are just not capable of that. I would like to think your doing this is just misguided, but given all the post content and attack content...it doesn't fit.

I said freedom of expression, which without it a forum just becomes propaganda and advertisement (sometimes false), which what has been happening..ahem. If that is what the community and game squad wants then okay, but they already have that option over there?

It is the bias Saddletank, it is blatant in almost every single post. I'm sure most agree and side with you since most of the community, as well as I, was most recently pro-SES, but someone in charge of the forum should not be this blatant especially in their actions. You created a culture of retrabution.

That fact that I'm going to have to leave this forum regardless of the outcome to disarm this situation is pretty well proof of the affliction.

What the forum needs is new topics started related to world war 1 naval combat.

 

[Pdqport]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

Saddletank, SES has it's own forum now where they can control every post and quell any criticism. Your services on this forum as their corporate enforcer are not required. It is clear that you are now attempting to disrupt this forum to the point that you hope it will be shut down, eliminating one arena where SES' DRM can be openly discussed.

This forum has an unpleasant history of attempts to ban dissent, lock threads, and censor posts. It was tried several years ago and caused real problems. In that regard, what you're pulling now is not new.

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/browse_frm/thread/83b9e5b7c318cc20/8552591a052d048d?lnk=gst&q=don+maddox&rnum=32&hl=en#8552591a052d048d

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/browse_thread/thread/aa1554ff1b393feb/332f4df7cde540d9?hl=en&q=missing+threads&lnk=ol&

 

[Herman Hum]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

That fact that I'm going to have to leave this forum regardless of the outcome to disarm this situation is pretty well proof of the affliction.

I've found your messages relevant and interesting. I hope that you do not leave over this.

 

[Redwolf]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

Well we don't know what Don will say yet. There's also the question who wants to be on the hot seat of being new moderator. Haha. Yeah right.

 

[Slider6]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

Perhaps a suggestion of compromise since clearly labeled topics "critical" or "DRM" of SES don't seem to be enough to keep "some" from entering then complaining as their propaganda and attacks are dismantled, then whine to the moderator for help.

Perhaps the forum would funtion better for the community with a greater break down of sub-topics? The forum contains a number of sub topics like the section SES used to maintain for technical support. If history only is what is desired, post there. If DRM is the discussion post there..etc.

A trying to be constructive in "thought", but the thought is not completely developed.

 

[Herman Hum]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

There are already plenty of tools available to forumites so that they can avoid seeing messages that they might find offensive. The easiest one is the "Ignore List". They could simply add names of the members they find repulsive to their personal forum settings and never see one of their messages, again. Instead, demands are made to ban/remove folks and their messages so that 'others' are not somehow forced to read public messages that complainants find personally objectionable.

 

[rgreat]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

If someone taking a piss in the center of the street you can just close your eyes and pretend you do not see (or smell) anything.

Like the analogy?

http://s44.radikal.ru/i106/0812/2c/8c8efe662232.gif (Do not click)

 

[thewood]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

Are people so immature they can't not read soemthing they don't like. Holy Cow, this is worse than I thought.

 

[rgreat]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

Try not to post stuff most people will not like.

 

[Slider6]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

Speak of the devil,

If the sign says "latrine" and you go in there anyway and then complain of the smell?

Like the analogy?

Now who really has the agenda?

 

[rgreat]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

I hope you old enough to tell a difference between latrine and kitchen.

 

[Slider6]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

Try not to post stuff most people will not like.

Well since just about everything you post is such for me? Where does that leave us except to try and tolerate each other?

 

[Slider6]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

I hope you old enough to tell a difference between latrine and kitchen.

Here we go...oh but I'm the bad guy..lol It is not going to get anymore obvious folks.

The maturity issue seems resolved to me. I didn't agree to someone banning me because they don't like me or my opinion...lol. With your demeaner, good luck with that.

Well, I thought we were headed somewhere constructive perhaps.

I think this is a typical example of why exactly this forum is where it is not because of the anti-SES retoric but rather this. Purposeful destruction by SES and its groupies. Guess they are going to come back to make ensure this forum dies. How fun for the next moderator.

BTW, if you don't remember your earlier tantrum (oops maturity) you stormed out after unleashing a tirade of personal attacks due to people attacking each other and "trolls"..lol

 

[rgreat]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

There will be only one.

 

[Slider6]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

Yup it seems that SES does feel that way. I think that pretty well says what is going on here.

 

[TBR]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

Excuse my posting this publicly but apparently Don's PM inbox is being spammed. I've been a very satisfied forum denizen for years, though I seldom ventured out of my favourite sub-forum but I'm now doubtful that I'll be visiting as often in the future:

Don

First of all let me thank you for providing a platform for these various interesting discussion boards.

I've been a longtime denizen of the Distant Guns sub-forum and tremendously enjoyed the mature discussion culture there. But for the rare "DRM" threads, which surfaced at any new content issue by SES and sometimes out of the blue, the discussion was always mature and mostly on topic, a refreshing difference to most other nooks in the net.

With the recent resurgence of spiteful DRM-discussion the "usual suspects", who distinguished themselves by their narrow focus away from the topics that made this sub-forum special, seem to have succeeded in smashing this small niche of civilized discussion. The actions of the moderator "saddletank" were not inapprobriate, on the contrary, he was too lenient IMO. Free speech is important but willfully uncivil behaviour should not be tolerated, especially when it is exhibited by people who haven't shown any true interest in what made the forum they posted in special. They just rode in on their hobby horse and woe to anyone who didn't consider their message important.

For the record, yes, I'm also not in the "pro-DRM" camp and consider SES DRM practice, both the new and the old, to be an unwise business decision. But their offering is special and their DRM is not as obnoxious as that of many others, one of which (ubisoft) is now on my personal blacklist.

But this type of discussion was not what the Distant Guns forum was about, one of the "usual suspects" even posted his interest in posting there was to prevent other companies from initiating home built DRM, admitting that his aim was purely destructive. Noting your personal dislike for a DRM scheme is all ok, but harping on about it with the aim of disrupting the business of a company and thereby disrupting a wonderful subforum is trollish behaviour and should result in the banishment of the user.

I've probably harped on to long already, so let me close with my thanks for the opportunity you provided me for the last several years and my regret that this has seemingly come to an end.

Kind Regards

TBR

 

[Hertston]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

One needs to ask WHY did SES set up their own forum?

I'll tell you.

It's because of months and years of being attacked and insulted by a few members of this forum, some of whom stay around for month after month raising the same subjects.

I'd suggest it's far more do with them wanting the moderating sticks Don Maddox has wisely denied them here, wouldn't you agree? Not that that's necessarily a criticism, most developers/publishers like to have have that sort of control which, on their own forum, they are quite entitled to. People quickly learn the approach taken and either adjust, get thrown thrown out or choose to leave. In the latter case is is good to have somewhere to talk about matters that will not survive 'official forum' censorship (especially when those official forums are in the hands of the Jim Roses and Derek Smarts of this world) and independent boards should be free of precisely the sort of 'restoring sense' you are talking about. As you keep pointing out, nobody seems to have actually broken any rules, only posted things SES don't like seeing. The first is moderators' business, the second is not. If SES choose not to address points raised, that's their choice, of course.

The DRM thing will die a death, soon, as will what you seem to perceive as 'the' problem . The situation has totally changed with the introduction of StormPowered. As that is intended to be a Steam/Impulse/GG- like service for general sales as well as SES games there's only two ways it can go. One will be that it, sooner or later, will function adequately in that role and everyone will be more or less happy - I think only the most niave of PC gamers really believes games will be available in any OTHER way in five years time. The second option.. well, let's just hope that doesn't happen.

I haven't posted here much, this board not being a regular haunt but in my infrequent visists I've seen far more 'attacks and insults' FROM SES rather than aimed AT them, at least in the sense of anything that might actually break forum rules. I had had no real contact with SES games until Jutland as DG didn't really interest me but, and regular hangers-out at other wargames boards will support me on this, the attitude of SES towards potential and actual customers, particularly those who dared criticise them was notorious well before Jutland's release.

Give it a little time, the departure of SES to their own board will make them happy and, in time, improve this one as well. Sometimes the best board is not the 'official' one.

 

[Redwolf]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

All we ever did is make sure that the past and present of the DRM scheme is accurately reported.

The intent is to enable wise buying decisions. Because once the money is payed the dollars continue to function whether the game works or not.

 

[Pdqport]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

It's a funny attitude that the forum was being somehow overrrun with threads about DRM. There were two recent threads about DRM in the SES forum. One was clearly titled as dealing with DRM. The other dealt with problems with the new DRM scheme that SES rolled out and there were many problems widely reported with the new system. In both cases, supporters of the DRM came into the threads and basically demanded that conversations critical of the DRM stop. Anyone raising DRM issues was labeled as a sock, a troll or both. To give you an idea of the nature of the attempts to quell any DRM discussion, this the 4th post from the thread titled "Interesting DRM article".

Why do you (plural) keep flogging this horse? SES have made perfectly plain that the DRM is here to stay. If you dont like it; well, if you knows a better hole...

Is it some sort of challenge to your manhood, or are you all masochists?

Or to put it another way: 'This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e
rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the
bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!! '

On the other hand there have been no attempts by anyone with DRM concerns to disrupt other conversations in the forum. No one is going to non-DRM threads and bringing up the topic or demanding that SES fans stop praising the company or its games.

The only trolls in the SES forum are the folks ( including the forum moderator) trying to end any discussion critical of the DRM scheme.

 

[Dr Zaius]

RE: The Distant Guns DRM thread of doom

* Note: This post has been moved to the Distant Guns forum from its original location in the main GameSquad help section.

Keep the comments coming. Feedback is always welcome.

I don't have much specific to say about this situation as I haven't been involved in any of the dedicated wargame sub-forums in quite some time. The majority of my time has been tied up in other endeavors. I will simply re-post what I told the moderators in private.

I have received a number of PMs and emails from people on this issue but have left them largely untouched because I'm not a mod and I have not even been in the DG folder to see what's going on. That said, I will give the mods my 2 cents even though you haven't asked for it.

I generally prefer to avoid long bans or closing threads. These methods rarely make things better because people tend to overreact and view thread closure along the lines of "this topic is off-limits," even though that wasn't the intent of the mods. Trust me, I've been down that road many times and it usually ends up doing more harm than good. It's better to let people say what they have to say, which as I see it is the primary purpose of an independent game forum.

In the case of SES, some people don't like the DRM the company employs and have very strong feelings on that subject. Fair enough. But the comments and criticism on that issue ought to be directed toward SES and its representatives because they're the people who make the games and who are in a position to actually say something meaningful on the issue as it pertains to their games. Closing discussions will simply re-focus that frustration on the volunteer GS mods, and that's not a position the mods will want to be in.

DRM discussions are always messy. Always. But like it or not it is a legitimate topic for gamers to discuss and debate. That said, allowing DRM flame wars to dominate discussion isn't a good thing either. The best approach is probably to keep the DRM discussion contained in one or two threads where people can discuss the issue freely. Deleting or closing discussions entirely is to be avoided. It's better to just combine them into one or two threads where everyone can have their say, or rant, or whatever, and then people can sort through it all and make up their own minds.