The British European Referendum

Should Britain leave the EU?


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Toby Pilling

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"Our democratic institutions are blocking out democracy!"
Democratic institutions? Eleven unelected Supreme Court judges have perpetrated a grotesque, constitutional outrage and insulted the British people, who voted for Brexit. They have over-ruled our elected government and blatantly politicised the judiciary. We, the people, can't even get a general election because the Remainer cowards in parliament won't allow it. It's all a mess because we aren't being allowed to leave the EU.
 

Martin Mayers

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Democratic institutions? Eleven unelected Supreme Court judges have perpetrated a grotesque, constitutional outrage and insulted the British people, who voted for Brexit. They have over-ruled our elected government and blatantly politicised the judiciary. We, the people, can't even get a general election because the Remainer cowards in parliament won't allow it. It's all a mess because we aren't being allowed to leave the EU.
You're a strategy expert. Why the fuck would an opposition Government give the Tories what they want...which is an escape route out of the fucking anarchy they've caused.

I'd leave it as long as I can. Let them stew. And hopefully die as a political force.

There's a part of me that believe the grand manipulators, the Tories, want the election to lose it anyhow...then they can leave the whole shit storm they've caused in the hands of other people to take the hit on. I wouldn't put it beyond those calculating right wing cunts.

Out of interest who brought in the Fixed Parliament Act and why? It's like some kind of crazy karma.
 

Martin Mayers

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you hear this complaint everywhere. Would you rather elect judges than have them appointed bia elected members? Judges on the campaign trail now? Really?
Rather anything if it gets them what they want...

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
 

Brian W

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Would you rather elect judges than have them appointed bia elected members?
I'm not sure how it works over there, but over here the wingnuts want 9 judges, white males only need apply, that have been hand picked by white evengelicals with a desire to roll back the Enlightenment. And that, as outrageous as it sounds, is the spot on truth.
 

Paul_RS

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Democratic institutions? Eleven unelected Supreme Court judges have perpetrated a grotesque, constitutional outrage and insulted the British people, who voted for Brexit. They have over-ruled our elected government and blatantly politicised the judiciary. We, the people, can't even get a general election because the Remainer cowards in parliament won't allow it. It's all a mess because we aren't being allowed to leave the EU.
Prorogation had nothing to with Brexit according to Johnson, until he was unanimously found to have acted unlawfully.

40 years of grooming has certainly worked on your foetid imagination.
 

Toby Pilling

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you hear this complaint everywhere. Would you rather elect judges than have them appointed bia elected members? Judges on the campaign trail now? Really?
What I'd rather happen is an election for a new parliament. The cowards on the opposition benches don't want the people to have their say though - they fear being booted out.
 

Paul M. Weir

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The purpose of a judge is to implement existing law. If you don't like the result then change the law.


... Oh, I almost forgot, that would have to happen via Parliament ... stupid me!

Catch 22½.
 

von Marwitz

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What I'd rather happen is an election for a new parliament. The cowards on the opposition benches don't want the people to have their say though - they fear being booted out.
As your politicians are apparently incapable of agreeing to anything, how about a new referendum to have the people have their say then?

For three years, your politicians have failed. What makes you think they will suddenly to better after an election?

If you want to have the people have their say, why, let them have it. In a referendum ask them:

Do you want to leave so bad that you accept a hard Brexit?
Do you want to leave accepting the deal the EU has offered?
Do you want to remain?

These are the three options that are on the table.

But really, I suppose, that you do not want to have the people their say and would loathe a new referendum now that might see a bit clearer what a Brexit entails.

Now you will cry: "Hey, undemocratic! The people had their referendum already!" As it happens, elections are regularly held in democracies and also in the UK mostly every 4 or 5 years, right? So it seems to be very democratic to ask the people "again" in certain intervals.

For three years now, your politicians have achieved nothing. And I bet they won't even if given another year. So after years of displayed thorough ineptitude and waste of time, it seems to me that the interval justifying the implementation of a new referendum is well nigh.
 

Martin Mayers

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What I'd rather happen is an election for a new parliament. The cowards on the opposition benches don't want the people to have their say though - they fear being booted out.
As your politicians are apparently incapable of agreeing to anything, how about a new referendum to have the people have their say then?

For three years, your politicians have failed. What makes you think they will suddenly to better after an election?

If you want to have the people have their say, why, let them have it. In a referendum ask them:

Do you want to leave so bad that you accept a hard Brexit?
Do you want to leave accepting the deal the EU has offered?
Do you want to remain?

These are the three options that are on the table.

But really, I suppose, that you do not want to have the people their say and would loathe a new referendum now that might see a bit clearer what a Brexit entails.

Now you will cry: "Hey, undemocratic! The people had their referendum already!" As it happens, elections are regularly held in democracies and also in the UK mostly every 4 or 5 years, right? So it seems to be very democratic to ask the people "again" in certain intervals.

For three years now, your politicians have achieved nothing. And I bet they won't even if given another year. So after years of displayed thorough ineptitude and waste of time, it seems to me that the interval justifying the implementation of a new referendum is well nigh.
People like Toby don't want the people to have their say. They just want to humbug the country into a No Deal Brexit and embrace the only remaining opportunity to save their beloved Tory Party. And the only possible way they can possibly do that is if they lead the country into an Election and discuss SOLELY the matter of Brexit, which is not what GENERAL Elections are for.

Want the people to have their say...then have a further Referendum on what people want vis a vis Brexit at this stage.

They won't do that of course because those on the opposition benches do not have a monopoly on cowardice. And despite what the Tories say they would be happy to secure a small majority with help from the Far Right to have their way with this country. As long as it meant the Tories retaining ultimate power. Power being all that they covet at any cost.

I actually believe a GE if held would not be the walkover these lot believe it would anyhow for the record (they should know better having been burnt last time). The Tories for sure wouldn't snap up those constituencies lead by people such as Kenneth Clarke who has looked after his constituents for 49 years and would stand as an Independent Conservative just by shoving a stooge in with a blue rosette.

But. We'll find out in a few weeks from now when one is called. Following the prevention of course of a disorderly Brexit and hopefully a 99 year extension...just to piss these whinging Brexitqueers off.
 
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Martin Mayers

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As your politicians are apparently incapable of agreeing to anything, how about a new referendum to have the people have their say then?
Slightly incorrect...

They do agree of course on the fact that the country must leave the EU in an orderly manner.

Parliament is working as it should at the moment. Stifling a bunch of extremists.
 

Toby Pilling

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People like Toby don't want the people to have their say. They just want to humbug the country into a No Deal Brexit and embrace the only remaining opportunity to save their beloved Tory Party.
Beloved Tory party? I couldn't give two hoots about the tories - what I'm interested in is democracy and upholding the largest vote for anything, ever, in our country. Bring in proportional representation, I say. Let the Conservative and Labour parties both collapse - I'll shed no tears. The referendum result needs to be enacted - everything else is just noise.
 

Morbii

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If it’s the largest (read: most important) vote for anything ever in the country, then why was it non-binding?

Why do you have a problem with a second referendum where the people state HOW they want to leave?

I kinda get why you’d be against a second referendum that includes a stay option, but it would not be undemocratic to do so, as minds can change (never mind that the people were lied to from the start).

Speaking of lies, how is duping people to vote for one side or the other democratic? It’s cheating, if you ask me.
 

Toby Pilling

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If it’s the largest (read: most important) vote for anything ever in the country, then why was it non-binding?

Why do you have a problem with a second referendum where the people state HOW they want to leave?

I kinda get why you’d be against a second referendum that includes a stay option, but it would not be undemocratic to do so, as minds can change (never mind that the people were lied to from the start).

Speaking of lies, how is duping people to vote for one side or the other democratic? It’s cheating, if you ask me.
No-one, absolutely no-one, treated it as non-binding at the time. Find me a quote from anyone involved in 2016 saying that it was just a large opinion poll.

Until the result of the first referendum is enacted, any new referendum with remain as an option is invalid.

Leave voters were dupes, were they? You'd make a good Remainer - they peddled plenty of falsehoods in the referendum campaign. Look up 'Project Fear' some time.
 

Paul M. Weir

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I'm in Ireland and didn't pay too much attention, but even I still knew that any referendum in the disUK cannot be binding under its (imaginary) constitution.
 

Paul M. Weir

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"Our democratic institutions are blocking out democracy!"
That reminds me of the Vietnam War phrase "We had to destroy the village to save it.", a misquote of Peter Arnett's "It became necessary to destroy the town to save it." about Bến Tre.
 

Toby Pilling

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We have a parliament that is frightened of the electorate. We have a politicised judiciary. We have a government with no majority. We have a population who fear that democracy is at risk. The next general election will be fascinating, if we’re ever allowed to have one.
 

Paul M. Weir

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I confess I missed the context of one of the items in the clip in my last post. I never thought "technology lessons" could be so interesting, nay, positively exciting. It is alleged that BloJob hired a pole dancer consultant at public expense to ensure that he did not allow his acumen to deflate. I'm sure he has cum to understand a lot about the workings of IO (input-output) devices and their drivers. There is hope for the computer nerds yet.
 
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