The British European Referendum

Should Britain leave the EU?


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Vinnie

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Correct, and their tragedy is that instead of seeing them as British, most of their fellow UK citizens in Britain see them as a particularly awkward group of Irishmen. And as has been pointed out, it's a group mainland UK would love to jettison, particularly since it's been decided that Brexit is now more important than preserving the Union.
Those who vote for Brexit tend to be staunchly pro-union. They see it as a means of strengthening the union. I think they are wrong...
 

Brian W

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They consider themselves UK citizens. Not Irish.
I understand that, but I was questioning whether they would also consider themselves UK citizens if the UK tells them they are not and negotiates for their unification with Ireland. I won't drag this out, though, as I was just wondering as someone without much understanding of how such a thing might happen, as I've heard it a possibility now from a few different people.
 

Paul M. Weir

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The only thing sure about the UK and Brexit is that all bets are off and it will be messy.
 

holdit

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We've finally got a Leave government - maybe soon we can get the hell out of the EU:

At last, an end to the slavery of democratically-elected UK MEPs voluntarily voting in favour of EU legislation and democratically-elected Westminster MPs voluntarily ratifying EU treaties. I'm amazed the UK has tolerated this vassal-statehood for so long. The spririts of Ghandi and Martin Luther King are surely alive this day in Boris Johnson. :rolleyes:

By the way, when out-of-EU doesn't turn out to be the utopia promised, who's next in line for the blame? Just curious...
 

Brian W

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who's next in line for the blame?
I have to admit, I'm beginning to look forward to the final train wreck and where each carriage will be strewn about the crash site.
 

Paul M. Weir

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Nothing like a dose of schadenfreude to make the news more digestible.
 

Martin Mayers

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Correct, and their tragedy is that instead of seeing them as British, most of their fellow UK citizens in Britain see them as a particularly awkward group of Irishmen. And as has been pointed out, it's a group mainland UK would love to jettison, particularly since it's been decided that Brexit is now more important than preserving the Union.
Don't agree with that. Some for sure. Most Brits don't see it in that way. Most English for example quite like the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish. Though I should rephrase and say most that I've known and met.

Of course we knock bells out of each other on all manner of issues. Be interesting to see a UK-wide referendum on Scottish independence. I think it would surprise people.

All my humble opinion of course.
 
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Martin Mayers

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Nothing like a dose of schadenfreude to make the news more digestible.
Coincidentally I'm five years from being in the fortunate position of being able to retire and in the advance stages of making plans to go and live in the Moselle Valley in Germany (assuming they'll have me). Can't wait to get away from this shitty, dirty, small-minded, insular looking crap-hole.

It's like a breath of fresh air when I drive out of the Chunnel and hit the countryside across there.

Perhaps a little bit of German heritage coming through strong?
 

Brian W

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Nothing like a dose of schadenfreude to make the news more digestible.
I wouldn't go that far, just thinking that if it ever does go "no deal" Brexit it will be interesting to see what predictions come to fruition and which turn out to be flat wrong. A dose of schadenfreude would be the pleasure I'll get when the people have to wait in line for food because of a hard Brexit. I don't know if that will happen, but if it does, I hope we see some good interviews with those in line asking them if they support Brexit now.
 

Martin Mayers

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I wouldn't go that far, just thinking that if it ever does go "no deal" Brexit it will be interesting to see what predictions come to fruition and which turn out to be flat wrong. A dose of schadenfreude would be the pleasure I'll get when the people have to wait in line for food because of a hard Brexit. I don't know if that will happen, but if it does, I hope we see some good interviews with those in line asking them if they support Brexit now.
That's a foolish thing to say as there will be as many remainers in the queue as brexiters.

Why would you take pleasure, as a US citizen (I can understand it of an Irish person, though it irks a tiny bit as we were there to assist them not so long back when they hit the rocks), in Brexit going wrong?

Bizarre.
 

Paul M. Weir

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Things in the US and UK are so crazy bad that to keep some sanity you have to laugh, hysterical laugh, I will grant you.
 

Martin Mayers

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That's the shameful part of schadenfreude. Indeed, that's the point of the word.
You've lost me. The point of the word is to describe people who literally take pleasure from other people's misfortune. There's no shame about it. Literally "joy from damage". A complex, and very real, emotion.
 
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Brian W

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I can understand it of an Irish person,
Well, the USA has about 30 million people of Irish descent. And a good portion of Jacobites ended up here after the 1750s. And we Welsh descendants have a gripe or two, too. And then there are all the French, as well as the Native Americans. And we have a good portion of Indians and Pakistanis now, too. We can ask the Chinese-Americans about how much Opium was foisted on them in the 19th century.

Really, there aren't too many people the English haven't pissed off through the centuries.
 

Martin Mayers

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Well, the USA has about 30 million people of Irish descent. And a good portion of Jacobites ended up here after the 1750s. And we Welsh descendants have a gripe or two, too. And then there are all the French, as well as the Native Americans. And we have a good portion of Indians and Pakistanis now, too. We can ask the Chinese-Americans about how much Opium was foisted on them in the 19th century.

Really, there aren't too many people the English haven't pissed off through the centuries.
I get it. I'll repeat what I've always said. That's fuck all to do with me, my fellow remainers, nor any of my surviving family so I'm still not sure why me and mine being hard hit would be welcomed and celebrated currently by someone of Irish descent. It would be the equivalent of me laughing at you being put out of work by one of Trump's policies. But there you go.
 

Martin Mayers

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Here in the USA it means shameful joy, the joy you get from someone else's misfortune. The joy you get that you shouldn't get.
Then I think you probably are all thinking that Schaden means shame. It doesn't. It means damage. Freude means joy.
 

Paul M. Weir

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I see BloJob has decided to drop the Backstop! Now that's definitely going to liven things up in NI.
 
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