The British European Referendum

Should Britain leave the EU?


  • Total voters
    53

Sparky

Member
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
299
Reaction score
252
Country
llUnited States
hahaha and thanks. I just spit beer all over the monitor upon seeing that. It did need cleaning I suppose
 

bendizoid

Official ***** Dickweed
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
2,962
Reaction score
812
Location
Viet Nam
Country
llUnited States
Why don’t you lower your taxes then the Isle will no longer be a haven but you will.
He looks happy, content, free from the bondage of the EU slavery the noble savage prepares a fire for his next meal.
 

Toby Pilling

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
153
Reaction score
93
Location
Didcot
Country
llUnited Kingdom
Brexiteer or Remainer, would we all agree with abolishing the House of Lords? I wonder if a push towards greater democratic accountability in the UK is something that can unite us all:

 

Vinnie

See Dummies in the index
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Messages
16,045
Reaction score
1,874
Location
Aberdeen , Scotland
Country
llUnited Kingdom
Brexiteer or Remainer, would we all agree with abolishing the House of Lords? I wonder if a push towards greater democratic accountability in the UK is something that can unite us all:

No, because it works.

It is fundamentally undemocratic but works as a brake on the mood swings of the populace. Now, if it were to get too reactionary, there are steps that can be taken to bypass it. Meantime, it is a positive thing to have people who do not have to be concerned about pleasing an electorate with an influence.
 

Mister T

Elder Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
3,745
Reaction score
1,108
Location
Bruxelles
Country
llFrance
Brexiteer or Remainer, would we all agree with abolishing the House of Lords? I wonder if a push towards greater democratic accountability in the UK is something that can unite us all:
Mind you many democraties have two chambers of Parliament. Of course it could be considered a redundancy but partisans of the bicameral system consider that it is better that two teams of lawmakers work on the same issues in order to improve overall legal quality. In the UK I understand that since the 1911 Parliament Act the Lords cannot block any more a bill supported by the Commons. So from that date the second chamber is no longer a hindrance to the full functionning of a parliamentary democracy.

In federal countries, the second chamber often represent the federated entities (US Senate, German Bundesrat). It could be said that a similar arrangement prevails at the EU level, with the European Parliament (representing the population) and the Council (representing the Member States).
 
Last edited:

holdit

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2006
Messages
136
Reaction score
136
Location
Ireland
Country
llIreland
Destroying something isn't the same as reforming it. I'd keep it, but with its members elected by the people.

We effectively had a referendum on this a few years ago in Ireland, where the option was to abolish the Senate (Seanad Eireann). It was a black-or-white choice, keep as-is or abolish. I don't think there's a huge amount of love out there for the senators themselves, but the retain vote won, probably because the whole exercise seemed to be at best planned on the back of a beermat or at worst, a cynical power grab by the parliament (Dail Eireann). Also, the case for abolition was poorly-argued, with the Seanad being blamed for not doing things the constitution prohibits it from doing anyway. :rolleyes:

...and, a lot of the electorate wanted to give the government a kicking at that time. Now what does that remind me of...? :)
 

Vinnie

See Dummies in the index
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Messages
16,045
Reaction score
1,874
Location
Aberdeen , Scotland
Country
llUnited Kingdom
The 1911 parliament act requires the bill to be blocked 3 times I think so although they can bypass the Lords, it costs them quite a bit of political capital.
 

Mister T

Elder Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
3,745
Reaction score
1,108
Location
Bruxelles
Country
llFrance
The 1911 parliament act requires the bill to be blocked 3 times I think so although they can bypass the Lords, it costs them quite a bit of political capital.
True, it was nevertheless used to bypass the Lords and ban hunting with dogs in 2004.
 

Toby Pilling

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
153
Reaction score
93
Location
Didcot
Country
llUnited Kingdom
No, because it works.

It is fundamentally undemocratic but works as a brake on the mood swings of the populace. Now, if it were to get too reactionary, there are steps that can be taken to bypass it. Meantime, it is a positive thing to have people who do not have to be concerned about pleasing an electorate with an influence.
Hmm... 'fundamentally undemocratic' but a 'brake on the mood swings of the populace'? You think it's good to have people making decisions who don't have to be worried about pleasing the electorate - grubby little bunch of oiks that they are.
You're not a fan of the EU by any chance, are you?
 

Paul M. Weir

Forum Guru
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,384
Reaction score
3,368
Location
Dublin
First name
Paul
Country
llIreland
I do admit I have a somewhat pro-Brexit part of me, the part that wishes to see Scotland and Northern Ireland decolonised. The other part of me sort of wishes that Brexit was abandoned simply because of the suffering it will cause.

As for democracy, you buggers need to get yourselves a proper written constitution that can only be altered by vote of the electorate, IE bring yourselves into the 20th Century at least. As for your House of Lords and our Senate, I like the idea of a potential "cooling-off" mechanism, though your HoL is somewhat frostier than our Senate.

As regarding Brexit, the original vote did not layout what type of Brexit would result. Now that it seem to settled to be most likely a hard Brexit, then the voters should be consulted. Opposition to a 2nd vote implies that a more informed electorate should be ignored, IE anti-democratic. The electorate are allowed to change their minds, that's why you hold parliamentary every 4-5 years. Or do you wish your MPs be elected for life?

What's this about Parliament being prorogued? Last time that was common the incumbent had some major cranial excision performed on him. I so look forward to BJ being lead to the chopping block if he tries something like that.
 

holdit

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2006
Messages
136
Reaction score
136
Location
Ireland
Country
llIreland
Hmm... 'fundamentally undemocratic' but a 'brake on the mood swings of the populace'? You think it's good to have people making decisions who don't have to be worried about pleasing the electorate - grubby little bunch of oiks that they are.
You're not a fan of the EU by any chance, are you?
Three years later and you're still unaware that the European Parliament is democratically elected? Have you ever done any homework on the subject of the EU apart from reading EU-bashing propaganda pieces?
 

Paul M. Weir

Forum Guru
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,384
Reaction score
3,368
Location
Dublin
First name
Paul
Country
llIreland
I've just caught up with the news that BloJob will be PM. I suppose there is an upside in that Spanky and BloJob will go well together.
 

Paul_RS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
1,491
Reaction score
498
Location
United Kingdom
Country
llUnited Kingdom
You think it's good to have people making decisions who don't have to be worried about pleasing the electorate - grubby little bunch of oiks that they are.
Was that the conservative leadership election? Love the victim card though, well played!
 
Last edited:

Paul_RS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
1,491
Reaction score
498
Location
United Kingdom
Country
llUnited Kingdom
I defy you not to giggle at this

A taster:

And then, for a few fleeting weeks, British politics came into contact with the reality of Brexit. May brought her deal back. The bleak, pulverising reality of regulatory alignment, customs controls, economic pain and political humiliation were revealed. It was like forcing vampires to stand in the sun. The Brexiters screeched and contorted. They went mad. And by the time they had darted back into the shade again, May was gone and so was her deal.

 
Last edited:

Paul_RS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
1,491
Reaction score
498
Location
United Kingdom
Country
llUnited Kingdom
Three years later and you're still unaware that the European Parliament is democratically elected? Have you ever done any homework on the subject of the EU apart from reading EU-bashing propaganda pieces?
The answer, is no and no. Should be clear to anyone with a passing interest the topic who’s read some of the drivel he’s posted during this debate.
 

Juan SantaX

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
186
Reaction score
65
Location
Sevilla
Country
llSpain
BJ, Orban, Trump, Salvini, Putin, MbS, Xi, Erdogan, Climate change.... Bad times comming..
 

bendizoid

Official ***** Dickweed
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
2,962
Reaction score
812
Location
Viet Nam
Country
llUnited States
Hmm... 'fundamentally undemocratic' but a 'brake on the mood swings of the populace'? You think it's good to have people making decisions who don't have to be worried about pleasing the electorate - grubby little bunch of oiks that they are.
You're not a fan of the EU by any chance, are you?
It like our senate but its unelected. Indeed, its power is derived from nepotism.
 

Paul_RS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
1,491
Reaction score
498
Location
United Kingdom
Country
llUnited Kingdom
Johnson: "There is no task so simple that government cannot overcomplicate if it doesn’t want to do it. And there are few tasks so complex that humanity cannot solve if we have a real sense of mission to pull them off."

400,000 people worked on the Apollo programme at a total cost of a quarter trillion USD. MIT designed and built the Apollo guidance computer. The issues were vast and exceptionally complex and its design ground breaking. Boris Johnson underestimates the task at hand once again.
 
Last edited:

Paul_RS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
1,491
Reaction score
498
Location
United Kingdom
Country
llUnited Kingdom
Ever wondered why Boris got stuck on the zip wire during the Olympics? He had to tell the riggers his weight so they could tension the wire correctly. He lied...
 
Top