The British European Referendum
- Thread starter MatrimSaric
- Start date
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- brexit
bendizoid
Official ***** Dickweed
Why don’t you lower your taxes then the Isle will no longer be a haven but you will.
He looks happy, content, free from the bondage of the EU slavery the noble savage prepares a fire for his next meal.
Toby Pilling
Member
Brexiteer or Remainer, would we all agree with abolishing the House of Lords? I wonder if a push towards greater democratic accountability in the UK is something that can unite us all:
www.spiked-online.com
2. Let’s abolish the Lords. For good
It's time we finally put an end to this anti-democratic institution.
www.spiked-online.com
Vinnie
See Dummies in the index
No, because it works.Brexiteer or Remainer, would we all agree with abolishing the House of Lords? I wonder if a push towards greater democratic accountability in the UK is something that can unite us all:
2. Let’s abolish the Lords. For good
It's time we finally put an end to this anti-democratic institution.
It is fundamentally undemocratic but works as a brake on the mood swings of the populace. Now, if it were to get too reactionary, there are steps that can be taken to bypass it. Meantime, it is a positive thing to have people who do not have to be concerned about pleasing an electorate with an influence.
Mister T
Elder Member
Mind you many democraties have two chambers of Parliament. Of course it could be considered a redundancy but partisans of the bicameral system consider that it is better that two teams of lawmakers work on the same issues in order to improve overall legal quality. In the UK I understand that since the 1911 Parliament Act the Lords cannot block any more a bill supported by the Commons. So from that date the second chamber is no longer a hindrance to the full functionning of a parliamentary democracy.
In federal countries, the second chamber often represent the federated entities (US Senate, German Bundesrat). It could be said that a similar arrangement prevails at the EU level, with the European Parliament (representing the population) and the Council (representing the Member States).
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Destroying something isn't the same as reforming it. I'd keep it, but with its members elected by the people.
We effectively had a referendum on this a few years ago in Ireland, where the option was to abolish the Senate (Seanad Eireann). It was a black-or-white choice, keep as-is or abolish. I don't think there's a huge amount of love out there for the senators themselves, but the retain vote won, probably because the whole exercise seemed to be at best planned on the back of a beermat or at worst, a cynical power grab by the parliament (Dail Eireann). Also, the case for abolition was poorly-argued, with the Seanad being blamed for not doing things the constitution prohibits it from doing anyway.
...and, a lot of the electorate wanted to give the government a kicking at that time. Now what does that remind me of...?
We effectively had a referendum on this a few years ago in Ireland, where the option was to abolish the Senate (Seanad Eireann). It was a black-or-white choice, keep as-is or abolish. I don't think there's a huge amount of love out there for the senators themselves, but the retain vote won, probably because the whole exercise seemed to be at best planned on the back of a beermat or at worst, a cynical power grab by the parliament (Dail Eireann). Also, the case for abolition was poorly-argued, with the Seanad being blamed for not doing things the constitution prohibits it from doing anyway.
...and, a lot of the electorate wanted to give the government a kicking at that time. Now what does that remind me of...?
Vinnie
See Dummies in the index
The 1911 parliament act requires the bill to be blocked 3 times I think so although they can bypass the Lords, it costs them quite a bit of political capital.
Mister T
Elder Member
True, it was nevertheless used to bypass the Lords and ban hunting with dogs in 2004.
Toby Pilling
Member
Hmm... 'fundamentally undemocratic' but a 'brake on the mood swings of the populace'? You think it's good to have people making decisions who don't have to be worried about pleasing the electorate - grubby little bunch of oiks that they are.
You're not a fan of the EU by any chance, are you?
I do admit I have a somewhat pro-Brexit part of me, the part that wishes to see Scotland and Northern Ireland decolonised. The other part of me sort of wishes that Brexit was abandoned simply because of the suffering it will cause.
As for democracy, you buggers need to get yourselves a proper written constitution that can only be altered by vote of the electorate, IE bring yourselves into the 20th Century at least. As for your House of Lords and our Senate, I like the idea of a potential "cooling-off" mechanism, though your HoL is somewhat frostier than our Senate.
As regarding Brexit, the original vote did not layout what type of Brexit would result. Now that it seem to settled to be most likely a hard Brexit, then the voters should be consulted. Opposition to a 2nd vote implies that a more informed electorate should be ignored, IE anti-democratic. The electorate are allowed to change their minds, that's why you hold parliamentary every 4-5 years. Or do you wish your MPs be elected for life?
What's this about Parliament being prorogued? Last time that was common the incumbent had some major cranial excision performed on him. I so look forward to BJ being lead to the chopping block if he tries something like that.
As for democracy, you buggers need to get yourselves a proper written constitution that can only be altered by vote of the electorate, IE bring yourselves into the 20th Century at least. As for your House of Lords and our Senate, I like the idea of a potential "cooling-off" mechanism, though your HoL is somewhat frostier than our Senate.
As regarding Brexit, the original vote did not layout what type of Brexit would result. Now that it seem to settled to be most likely a hard Brexit, then the voters should be consulted. Opposition to a 2nd vote implies that a more informed electorate should be ignored, IE anti-democratic. The electorate are allowed to change their minds, that's why you hold parliamentary every 4-5 years. Or do you wish your MPs be elected for life?
What's this about Parliament being prorogued? Last time that was common the incumbent had some major cranial excision performed on him. I so look forward to BJ being lead to the chopping block if he tries something like that.
Three years later and you're still unaware that the European Parliament is democratically elected? Have you ever done any homework on the subject of the EU apart from reading EU-bashing propaganda pieces?
I've just caught up with the news that BloJob will be PM. I suppose there is an upside in that Spanky and BloJob will go well together.
Mister T
Elder Member
Same golden path as Cameron, different style
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/21/boris-johnson-route-to-number-10
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/21/boris-johnson-route-to-number-10
Paul_RS
Senior Member
Was that the conservative leadership election? Love the victim card though, well played!
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Paul_RS
Senior Member
I defy you not to giggle at this
A taster:
And then, for a few fleeting weeks, British politics came into contact with the reality of Brexit. May brought her deal back. The bleak, pulverising reality of regulatory alignment, customs controls, economic pain and political humiliation were revealed. It was like forcing vampires to stand in the sun. The Brexiters screeched and contorted. They went mad. And by the time they had darted back into the shade again, May was gone and so was her deal.
www.politics.co.uk
A taster:
And then, for a few fleeting weeks, British politics came into contact with the reality of Brexit. May brought her deal back. The bleak, pulverising reality of regulatory alignment, customs controls, economic pain and political humiliation were revealed. It was like forcing vampires to stand in the sun. The Brexiters screeched and contorted. They went mad. And by the time they had darted back into the shade again, May was gone and so was her deal.
Boris Johnson: The next human sacrifice to the Brexit machine
The only question is: Which of his promises does Boris Johnson break first?
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Paul_RS
Senior Member
The answer, is no and no. Should be clear to anyone with a passing interest the topic who’s read some of the drivel he’s posted during this debate.
Juan SantaX
Member
BJ, Orban, Trump, Salvini, Putin, MbS, Xi, Erdogan, Climate change.... Bad times comming..
bendizoid
Official ***** Dickweed
It like our senate but its unelected. Indeed, its power is derived from nepotism.
Paul_RS
Senior Member
Johnson: "There is no task so simple that government cannot overcomplicate if it doesn’t want to do it. And there are few tasks so complex that humanity cannot solve if we have a real sense of mission to pull them off."
400,000 people worked on the Apollo programme at a total cost of a quarter trillion USD. MIT designed and built the Apollo guidance computer. The issues were vast and exceptionally complex and its design ground breaking. Boris Johnson underestimates the task at hand once again.
400,000 people worked on the Apollo programme at a total cost of a quarter trillion USD. MIT designed and built the Apollo guidance computer. The issues were vast and exceptionally complex and its design ground breaking. Boris Johnson underestimates the task at hand once again.
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Paul_RS
Senior Member
Ever wondered why Boris got stuck on the zip wire during the Olympics? He had to tell the riggers his weight so they could tension the wire correctly. He lied...