The British European Referendum

Should Britain leave the EU?


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Paul M. Weir

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I agree. But the Union seems sacrosanct to the Tories...until something more important comes along like Brexit it appears.
Clearly us Irish haven't sufficiently "learnt our place".

While I have some, indeed a decent amount, of sympathy for many English who will suffer from the decisions of stupid "Little Englanders", I see the possible breakup of the UK being a slightly silver lining. While that is likely to cost lives, it might finally end the 850 year Anglo-Irish struggle, saving more distant future lives.

I almost forgot, what happens to Gibraltar? Under siege again?
 

Vinnie

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Please indicate where on the ballot paper Brexit in Name Only was specified.
Please indicate where it wasn't? 😀
More seriously, the deal onnthe table was more than in name only. Itmwoukd also have done lasting damage yo our economy and place inn the world.
 

holdit

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Please indicate where on the ballot paper Brexit in Name Only was specified.
It wasn't which is precisely the point. Hard-brexiteers can't claim democracy demands the only way is crash-out, because that wasn't a choice on the ballot paper either. Another inconvenient truth is that the vote followed a pro-Brexit campaign that did not focus on crashing out at all, promising instead something very different. "All the benefits...", remember?

This is why TM's confident statement that "Brexit means Brexit" was such nonsense. She might as well have announced that the identity of Jack the Ripper was the person who committed the ripper murders.
 

Paul M. Weir

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OK. There seems to be a constant whine about democracy.

There are 3 choices:
  1. Remain
  2. Exit with the most recent deal that failed in parliament but still did best amongst the options voted on in parliment
  3. Exit with no deal
Allow the voters a ranked choice where they can vote 1st, 2nd and 3rd among the options. The least popular option of the 3 is eliminated and those votes now go to those voter's 2nd choice, if any. IE Proportional Representation (Instant Run Off for US readers). Those who want to get out regardless can vote 2,3,1 or 3,2,1. Remainers would likely vote 1,2,3.

Of course it doesn't have to be just 3 options, I'm sure Option 2 could be split into different options as many were presented in parliament over the last two years.

So now that the electorate have had a chance to view what is or could have been, then they are in a better position to judge. The only reason for not holding a second referendum is that some fear that the original result would be overturned by the electorate now that they are faced with more than theoretical ideas.
 

Martin Mayers

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OK. There seems to be a constant whine about democracy.

There are 3 choices:
  1. Remain
  2. Exit with the most recent deal that failed in parliament but still did best amongst the options voted on in parliment
  3. Exit with no deal
Allow the voters a ranked choice where they can vote 1st, 2nd and 3rd among the options. The least popular option of the 3 is eliminated and those votes now go to those voter's 2nd choice, if any. IE Proportional Representation (Instant Run Off for US readers). Those who want to get out regardless can vote 2,3,1 or 3,2,1. Remainers would likely vote 1,2,3.

Of course it doesn't have to be just 3 options, I'm sure Option 2 could be split into different options as many were presented in parliament over the last two years.

So now that the electorate have had a chance to view what is or could have been, then they are in a better position to judge. The only reason for not holding a second referendum is that some fear that the original result would be overturned by the electorate now that they are faced with more than theoretical ideas.
The problem is the reality of you providing three options where two of the three options are simply not possibly achievable within the constraints of the Parliamentary Democracy we operate within.
 

Paul_RS

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Please indicate where on the ballot paper Brexit in Name Only was specified.
That’s the problem, fail to plan, plan to fail. It’s not difficult. There were plenty of plans available, there was even a competition but the quitlings knew that had a plan been proposed they would have lost the referendum. Your oppos in the ERG scuppered the parliamentary vote. Suck it up, loser.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The pound sterling is the worst performing major currency in the world over the past 24 hours, over the past month, over the past three months and over the past year <a href="https://t.co/NfdkwHvQCU">pic.twitter.com/NfdkwHvQCU</a></p>&mdash; Ed Conway (@EdConwaySky) <a href=" ">July 16, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

Paul_RS

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Hard Brexit, WTO....


Those who refuse to hear just have to feel it
Wer nicht hören will muss fühlen
 

Paul_RS

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I think it is time to take back control, starting in Northern Ireland. Of course, the dictatorial EU are trying to take away the rights of warring factions to kill each other and blow up bombs, but us plucky democratic Brits know it is character forming. We can take back control of the pound as it continues to slide against such power currencies as the Ghana cedi and Gambian dalasi, until it is so low all our exports are cheap, cheap. We shall all be millionaires and won't mind paying a hundred k for a burger. Look at the impact we will have on emissions when no one can afford petrol any more. There are so many advantages to brexit, why didn't we do this sooner?
 

Juan SantaX

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I voted on May, and the elected then voted yesterday...

Im not german, but I will miss Angela Merkel...
 

Martin Mayers

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Mister T

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Vote on a choice of one. Democracy, EU style:

Hum I see, you would have preferred a direct election of EU leaders, wow that's a very big step towards federalism, i like it, i could not have thought of that from eurosceptics :p

For the rest, under current Treaties supreme authority (here the European Council of heads of state and governement, or the President in many parliamentary regimes of EU MS) chooses a nominee that must pass a vote before Parliament to enter into function. If it fails to reach majority, another one is chosen that must pass muster and so on. Typical procedure in many democracies.

Ok, in the UK it's a bit different, it's the party members, 0.2% of the population, that choose the PM. Much more democratic lol
 

Paul_RS

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Paul_RS

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Vote on a choice of one. Democracy, EU style:

Ursula von der Leyen was elected last night by the newly elected European Parliament as the new President of the EU Commission.
The new MEPs voted ‘narrowly’ (apparently) 383 to 327.
Or 53.9% to 46.1%.
Or, put another way, twice the margin of the Brexit referendum vote.
Meanwhile, Nigel Farage says he’s going to use Mrs Von der Leyen as a ‘poster girl’ for Brexit.
Hopefully, if he does, it’ll spectacularly backfire - because she has been elected by a clear majority of EU citizens’ recently elected representatives, and she was elected by a significantly larger margin than the UK voted to leave the EU.
 
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