The British European Referendum

Should Britain leave the EU?


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Paul_RS

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Sparafucil3

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Progress implies improvement, replacing buggy wheels and whips with something better and more efficient creates work and in general terms improves people lives. I have yet to read or hear anything even remotely coherent on how Brexit will improve the lives of the people in the U.K.
But saying it won't pay people mortgages is a simple appeal to fear, much like those who argue against progress. I take your point about conveying how it is progress. -- jim
 

holdit

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Richard Delingpole, UKIP.
That wasn't even an argument, it was a rant. So he has no problem with the US president deciding who the UK can have as ambassador...but "taking back control" is important to him. Right. Of course it is.

The truth of the matter is that it's a huge embarrassment for Boris because he's upended a system that has lasted a long time and worked pretty well, having evolved over an even longer time to facilitate communication between nations. But that doesn't matter if the high priest of Brexit says it's time to sacrifice it on the altar of (a) ambition and (b) a quick deal with the US following a hard Brexit.

"Diplomacy is about surviving for the next hundred years. Politics is about surviving until Friday afternoon!"
- Sir Humphrey Appleby

Bojo's priorities are plain to see, yet he expects people to believe he has a vision for the UK. Of course, that vision is "Bojo in No 10", and goes no further...
 

javanabal

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Free Julian Assange and then, we will see if we can speak about any british democracy, inside or outside EU. :p
 

Paul_RS

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That wasn't even an argument, it was a rant. So he has no problem with the US president deciding who the UK can have as ambassador...but "taking back control" is important to him. Right. Of course it is.

The truth of the matter is that it's a huge embarrassment for Boris because he's upended a system that has lasted a long time and worked pretty well, having evolved over an even longer time to facilitate communication between nations. But that doesn't matter if the high priest of Brexit says it's time to sacrifice it on the altar of (a) ambition and (b) a quick deal with the US following a hard Brexit.

"Diplomacy is about surviving for the next hundred years. Politics is about surviving until Friday afternoon!"
- Sir Humphrey Appleby

Bojo's priorities are plain to see, yet he expects people to believe he has a vision for the UK. Of course, that vision is "Bojo in No 10", and goes no further...
 

Paul_RS

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An alternative view:

An alternative view:

The problem for Dellers and his merry band of Breitbart grunters is that for them Brexit was always more of a culture war. They never put any thought into how it might be done if they got the opportunity to do it. They now find the cupboard is bare when searching for an economic rationale so they hitch their wagon to the Tory right who at least have an idea of what they want even if their plan is total bollocks. One suspects Dellers knows it stands on a foundation of intellectual sand but they've now chosen their hill to die on and will fight to the last man with the feeble weapons they have.
 
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Vinnie

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Free Julian Assange and then, we will see if we can speak about any british democracy, inside or outside EU. :p
He's being held for refusing to comply with the bail conditions on a European extradition request. I hardly see how this is a question if democracy. Whetger the original extrafition request has been withdrawn or not is irrelevant to his breech of bail conditions.
 

Paul_RS

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I see Hunt’s still arguing that his corporation tax cuts will protect businesses threatened by a no deal brexit again: those businesses facing existential risk won’t have any profits to be taxed, that’s why they face existential risk. But hey, he’s an entrepreneur so businesses can rest easy...
 
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Paul_RS

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That wasn't even an argument, it was a rant. So he has no problem with the US president deciding who the UK can have as ambassador...but "taking back control" is important to him. Right. Of course it is.

The truth of the matter is that it's a huge embarrassment for Boris because he's upended a system that has lasted a long time and worked pretty well, having evolved over an even longer time to facilitate communication between nations. But that doesn't matter if the high priest of Brexit says it's time to sacrifice it on the altar of (a) ambition and (b) a quick deal with the US following a hard Brexit.

"Diplomacy is about surviving for the next hundred years. Politics is about surviving until Friday afternoon!"
- Sir Humphrey Appleby

Bojo's priorities are plain to see, yet he expects people to believe he has a vision for the UK. Of course, that vision is "Bojo in No 10", and goes no further...
Richard is James’s brother. He has an interest in WW1 and I believe produces some very attractive cards depicting WW1 soldiers. Politically they appeared to pretty much aligned though. Richard North, a prominent leave campaigner, describes James Delingpole as a “quarter wit” as far as his knowledge of Brexit and trade related issues are concerned. He should know as he’s has worked and conversed with him in the past.
 

Paul_RS

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That wasn't even an argument, it was a rant. So he has no problem with the US president deciding who the UK can have as ambassador...but "taking back control" is important to him. Right. Of course it is.

The truth of the matter is that it's a huge embarrassment for Boris because he's upended a system that has lasted a long time and worked pretty well, having evolved over an even longer time to facilitate communication between nations. But that doesn't matter if the high priest of Brexit says it's time to sacrifice it on the altar of (a) ambition and (b) a quick deal with the US following a hard Brexit.

"Diplomacy is about surviving for the next hundred years. Politics is about surviving until Friday afternoon!"
- Sir Humphrey Appleby

Bojo's priorities are plain to see, yet he expects people to believe he has a vision for the UK. Of course, that vision is "Bojo in No 10", and goes no further...
Not sure if you caught the Andrew Neill interview last night? Both candidates were shown up for what they are. Johnson in particular was bereft of any detailed knowledge on the topic of Brexit, or anything else, TBH.
 

Paul_RS

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But saying it won't pay people mortgages is a simple appeal to fear, much like those who argue against progress. I take your point about conveying how it is progress. -- jim
Fear? Or merely advising them of the potential downsides and risks to allow the people to make informed decisions rather than avoiding discussing them altogether. Honesty in politics and an informed electorate are classic oxymorons in U.K. politics just now.
 
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Paul_RS

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holdit

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Robert Tombs is a great historian and has an interesting take on things:

The article is behind a paywall so the article can't be read unless you're one of the Torygraph faithful. I did look up Mr Tombs and found out that he retired in 2016, which chimes with the following, written in a comment below the piece:

"Like most optimistic Brexiteers with a good sense of humor, the author is a year or 2 from retirement
and happy to leave the next gen to pick up the pieces.
Like the bloke who leaves his missus to pick up the cheque - classy."
 

Paul_RS

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Robert Tombs is a great historian and has an interesting take on things:

Brexit has failed to progress by one inch since Article 50 was triggered. So this is no rearguard action; the fight, if there is going to be one, has not yet begun.
What has happened, is that the Brexiters have, with a great deal of prompting from Remainers, deployed their various arguments and the pretences that pass for strategies and plans on that side of the political divide. One by one, Remainers have shot them all down. The action is now approaching the Brexiters’ last, desperate throw; an attempt to subvert democracy. That too will fail.
 
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