Since another big referendum is approaching and the previous Scottish one was debated in such a reasonable manner... on this site I thought a general thread on the subject would be amusing. Being English I do have a dog in this fight so my personal opinion is that I am an 'outer'. I have many reasons, some which mirror the SNP attitude in the earlier referendum. The biggest is that I feel that any country which is willing to sacrifice freedom for a tiny amount of extra cash in their pocket deserves freedom, or extra cash for that matter (there is a quote somewhere concerning something similar though i cant be bothered to find it). I don't see other countries desperately giving up sovereignty to form big faceless bureaucratic trade blocks and the thought that the 5-6th largest economy on the world would not be capable of standing on our own feet is laughable. The current European project was designed to reduce the 'impact' on democracy and ensure the same technocrats rule regardless as to democratic choice. If the outers win then I expect a Norwegian type model where we accept free movement and lots of trade laws to continue access to the market but also the ability to move away in future and to block other legislation. This is the simplest and least friction involved response. Rather perversely I also agree with Roy Jenkins opinion that there are only two coherent arguments with regard to Europe - either entirely out or entirely in. This weird half way house Cameron is proposing is particularly ridiculous. Most of the Remains camps arguments could be used against Remain as an argument in a different choice to take the Euro and go 'all in'. Basically if we are 'in' then we should join the Euro and look at dismantling all the national governments to move towards a democratically elected 'US of Europe' with one state, one armed force etc etc. I don't see the debate being particularly reasonable or sensible. The Remains (and the establishment) are already kicking in the old favorite (project fear) with much random threats of plagues of locusts and co-coordinating doom calling. I am particularly incensed by the argument by the current government that we are too feeble and weak to do things ourselves without Europe telling us what to do. Use of stats also follows standard propaganda lies (I rather enjoyed a 'remain' argument that we export 47 billion ish to Europe but Europe only exports 10% of their goods to us which ignores the fact that that is 10% of a much larger base and is a much larger value than the 47 billion meaning if trade barriers pop up then Europe is more hurt than us. It also ignores the Rotterdam Effect which means that goods exported to the Netherlands tend to be moved out of Europe but still count as trade to Europe). I also find it amusing that various people are removing old anti-Europe articles in an attempt to claim they never were and for ex-sceptics suddenly (probably for job reasons - almost like the opposite of Boris) suddenly being keen on Europe. The SNP are particularly amusing as all the arguments for leaving the UK are now ignored as they argue the opposite for the EU. As a final aside the Greek communists put up an interesting argument with regard to changing the Euppean project recently and though I am very far from being anything close to a communist (and think the Greeks idea that 'voting' to ignore all your debts whilst still wanting more money from those self same debtors was weak willed) the fundamental point about Europe is something I agree with. [http://diem25.org/] Anyway what does everyone think. Remain, leave or go all in. I suspect the vote will be Remain because fear and greed can do a lot to persuade a sceptic to vote against their conscious (and at its heart Britain has always been mainly sceptical hence the deliberate attempt to avoid describing the European project as it actually is (and as noted in cabinet papers of thirty years back)) but would love it to go the other way. I also try to keep in mind Oliver Cromwells intelligent comment to 'Think it possible you may be mistaken' (perhaps better to have a quote from someone who wasn't a military dictator) so feel free to persuade me otherwise.