The Battle of Manila 1945

[PabloGS]

For the past several years, there has been a map circulating around the internet on many different websites and blogs. It is reputed to be a document created by General Mac Arthur's Intelligence Division. It shows, in great detail, all the Japanese pillboxes, gun positions, machine gun emplacements, barbed wire, trenches, mines, and obstacles located in and around Intramuros. It lists the data as being from POW's, observation, or Filipino informants. Many of the guns are labeled as to their type and caliber (ie: 150 mortar, AA gun, AT gun, etc). Very detailed info for history buffs.
I was thinking that having MMP include this as part of the documentation as it might be of interest to those who purchase the game. The cost of one page would be a few pennies at most. Thoughts from the group? Should I have MMP include it?

Absolutely!

 

[wrongway149]

Later this week I may try to post a pic of just one of the six maps....don't know if it is even possible since each map file (six total) is HUGE..........th entire map takes up 644,234 KB of space to give you an idea........

Do you have any scenarios featuring the First Cavalry Division?

 

[ASLSARGE]

Do you have any scenarios featuring the First Cavalry Division?

Yes....ten of the twenty five scenarios feature the 1st Cavalry Division.

 

[ASLSARGE]

Below is a photograph of what was left of the Manila Police Station after the battle. This pile of debris and rubble is hardly recognizable as having ever been a building. It was two stories tall, made of reinforced concrete, with very thick walls. In its construction it was almost a fortress, and the Japanese defenders made the most of its protection. It took several assaults, hundreds of direct-fire high explosive rounds, and many gallons of gasoline to finally destroy the defenders, How anyone could have continued on fighting in this pile of destruction is beyond my ability to comprehend....yet, they did. In the last playing of the Police Station scenario my Americans came up just short of controlling more locations within the Police Station that the Japanese at game end. Their MG's laid down lots of spraying fire with residual and almost everyone I sent in broke in the street adjacent. Always a tense and bloody affair with this scenario.

 

[von Marwitz]

Below is a photograph of what was left of the Manila Police Station after the battle. This pile of debris and rubble is hardly recognizable as having ever been a building. It was two stories tall, made of reinforced concrete, with very thick walls. In its construction it was almost a fortress, and the Japanese defenders made the most of its protection. It took several assaults, hundreds of direct-fire high explosive rounds, and many gallons of gasoline to finally destroy the defenders, How anyone could have continued on fighting in this pile of destruction is beyond my ability to comprehend....yet, they did. In the last playing of the Police Station scenario my Americans came up just short of controlling more locations within the Police Station that the Japanese at game end. Their MG's laid down lots of spraying fire with residual and almost everyone I sent in broke in the street adjacent. Always a tense and bloody affair with this scenario.

Reminds me of one of the key buildings in Cholm that was extremely contested.

von Marwitz

 

[Eagle4ty]

Below is a photograph of what was left of the Manila Police Station after the battle. This pile of debris and rubble is hardly recognizable as having ever been a building. It was two stories tall, made of reinforced concrete, with very thick walls. In its construction it was almost a fortress, and the Japanese defenders made the most of its protection. It took several assaults, hundreds of direct-fire high explosive rounds, and many gallons of gasoline to finally destroy the defenders, How anyone could have continued on fighting in this pile of destruction is beyond my ability to comprehend....yet, they did. In the last playing of the Police Station scenario my Americans came up just short of controlling more locations within the Police Station that the Japanese at game end. Their MG's laid down lots of spraying fire with residual and almost everyone I sent in broke in the street adjacent. Always a tense and bloody affair with this scenario.

One of the best looking pieces of defensive terrain I've seen. The way our minds work normally, one sees a building that has the snot knocked out of it and tells us it no longer poses a major threat. To the trained military eye it is heaven sent piece of defensive terrain for many reasons, perception of disuse being only one.

 

[ASLSARGE]

Here is a photo of the Japanese gun atop the south wall of Intramuros. It is not identified, but I am fairly sure it is a 120mm AA Multi-purpose gun. There were a lot on the damaged and sunken ships in Manila Bay, and the Japanese recovered many of them, put them on ground mounts, and used them during the battle of Manila. They also recovered many, many other AA guns from the ships including 12.7mm, 20mm, and 25mm. The large number of guns made up for their lack of armor in the city. That 120mm piece is especially deadly. Makes the American player think carefully when and where he commits his tanks. Pretty much a one-shot = one kill gun.

 

[ASLSARGE]

Two of the more "unique" weapons in the Japanese arsenal in Manila are included in the HASL. The buried aerial bomb, and the C/C DC attack. The buried bomb is especially effective against armor but does a serious number on soft targets and infantry as well. The C/C DC attack reflects the almost suicidal nature of the Japanese defense, and gives pause to the American player....does he really want to move that squad into C/C with that 237 hs w/ a DC....even if it is a victory building? The half squad could simply eliminate itself, but could take out the American squad at the same time with a 30fp HE attack. This one is a fave among the playtesters.

 

[Eagle4ty]

Now one should include the fuel intensified DC (could also be applied to RB/VotG/BRT/etc.) employed by the 1st Cav to root out special pockets. It could be equiv. to a 30FP FT attack, perhaps even effect any accessible location as well. (Just some weird food for thought).

 

[ASLSARGE]

Now one should include the fuel intensified DC (could also be applied to RB/VotG/BRT/etc.) employed by the 1st Cav to root out special pockets. It could be equiv. to a 30FP FT attack, perhaps even effect any accessible location as well. (Just some weird food for thought).

Have something similar in my Corregidor HASL. Used in one scenario.....a 5 gallon can of gas, with TNT and WP grenades attached. Dropped down an ventilation shaft into a gun battery powder magazine to eliminate Japanese defenders who would not come out. Nasty stuff! In my Peleliu HASL the Americans can purchase in the CG what is called a Cave Burnout. The reality is they placed several 55 gallon drums of gasoline on the beach, ran a hose up the hills and used hand pumps to spray the gas deep into a known cave. They then lit it up with WP grenades and "whoosh!" the contents of that cave are subjected to a 36fp flame attack and all accessible caves are subject to a 16fp flame attack. Great way to clear out a stubborn cave complex. Limited purchase for obvious reasons. Still, lots of fun......unless you are the Japanese player with units in those caves.

 

[ASLSARGE]

The question of how best to use THH's.
Each situation and player's preferences are different. Would be interested in what others do.
In most situations I prefer to have my MMC create THH's as opportunities arise rather than create them ahead of time and place them on board HIP at start.
It was my experience in the Manila games that the opposite was true. Creating THH's during play ended up in probably 99% KIA's of the THH's prior to them actually doing anything of value other than draw defensive fire. As the Japanese player I had much better luck setting my allotment of THH's onboard HIP and then place my other units in locations that would hopefully lure the American AFV's close to where my HIPPIES were. I would estimate my odds increased somewhere to around 20 - 25% for the THH to actually enter the AFV's hex and try to eliminate it. Otherwise I think my odds were more around 10% at best. Perhaps it is due to the dense, congested urban terrain...although I've had good luck in other PTO scenarios in city fights creating my THH's during play.
One of my regular opponents only creates them during play....says pre-set HIP guys tend to always be out of position. Which do you prefer......set up HIP, or create during play?
I had one squad that created three of the four allotted to me one game.....and two of the three KIA'd American vehicles.....one halftrack and one Sherman. Not bad....50% success rate.

 

[gorkowskij]

Good question. I prefer HIP since we can usually correctly guess the avenues of approach. Whether HIP or spontaneous though, the larger question is "How do I create enough hindrance and/or induce enough pinning to enable the tank hunter hero to actually close the distance, even when it's adjacent." That's the crux of the matter since the Americans have an obscene volume of fire with which to stop him. The American edge is a real shocker to veterans of the ETO who are accustomed to buttoned up tanks not bothering to use their 2 FP AAMG; too much risk not enough reward. In the PTO on the other hand, many American vehicles have a 4 FP AAMG and such weak Japanese counter fire that they do go CE. The end result is a 4-FP AAMG plus 4-FP CMG blazing away at any THH who dares come near. Since the THH has the "benefit" of entering the enemy hex during movement he often has to eat 24 FP down at least one for FFNAM, and that's after he weaves through all those 6-FP squads. Ergo, a successful WP or SMOKE shot from a knee mortar is almost a prerequisite BEFORE even attempting the THH's charge, whether spontaneous or HIP.

 

[Paul S NJ]

The question of how best to use THH's.
Each situation and player's preferences are different. Would be interested in what others do.
In most situations I prefer to have my MMC create THH's as opportunities arise rather than create them ahead of time and place them on board HIP at start.
It was my experience in the Manila games that the opposite was true. Creating THH's during play ended up in probably 99% KIA's of the THH's prior to them actually doing anything of value other than draw defensive fire. As the Japanese player I had much better luck setting my allotment of THH's onboard HIP and then place my other units in locations that would hopefully lure the American AFV's close to where my HIPPIES were. I would estimate my odds increased somewhere to around 20 - 25% for the THH to actually enter the AFV's hex and try to eliminate it. Otherwise I think my odds were more around 10% at best. Perhaps it is due to the dense, congested urban terrain...although I've had good luck in other PTO scenarios in city fights creating my THH's during play.
One of my regular opponents only creates them during play....says pre-set HIP guys tend to always be out of position. Which do you prefer......set up HIP, or create during play?
I had one squad that created three of the four allotted to me one game.....and two of the three KIA'd American vehicles.....one halftrack and one Sherman. Not bad....50% success rate.

Good discussion.
I think in a high unit density CG, having the THH HIP is the way to go. You can put a bunch of them in one area and have multiple charges through decent cover to give a better chance of an AFV kill. After 6-8 THH's charge in one turn, the American player probably will be cautious to keep AFV's back and give up point blank MG and TH bonuses, and not even think about sleaze freeze. That's a big win for the defender.
Also attempting to create a THH is concealment loss (IIRC) which probably leads to bad things for the creating MMC.
Paul

 

[PabloGS]

In a recent game of Bloody Red Beach, as you don't know where the amphibians will come, and the bulk of the infantry is up in the hills on the flanks, I placed all the THH HIP in the hinterland hexes right at the beach's edge. I ended up "wasting" half of them but they did do some damage to the amphibians. I should have held a few in reserve though, because when the FT-Sherman started spewing into the cave complexes it was game over.

 

[von Marwitz]

If you have a game with plenty of Banzai Charges, then the 'creation'-way may have its advantages:
You can create THH during the Banzai and have them fork off to another direction which is not the same as that of the original Banzai Charge if enemy targets permit that. If DCs are involved, this tactic is even better because you are not limited to going after AFVs. In effect, the original Banzai will 'freeze' until the DC Hero has completed his - which will likely attract (or enforce) defensive fire. This in turn can enforce FPF (with morale checks for morale 6 Americans) and screw up your opponent quite a bit. A 'forking off' Banzai of the DC hero can also catch your opponent at unawares.

von Marwitz

 

[ASLSARGE]

One of the more interesting comments I have heard over the years while playtesting Manila was this.....the map provides several different "urban environments" in which to do battle. And it is true. North of the Pasig River you have very tall, large buildings in the commercial/business district of the city. Within the ancient walled city of Intramuros you have very narrow streets, a mixture of building types, and those huge walls to contend with. In the government section of the city you have very large buildings surrounded by large open spaces. South of there you have the University/General Hospital area with a wide variety of buildings (small to very large) and a more dense environment. To the east you have lots of waterways dissecting the area and even an island in the middle of the river. Along the shore of Manila Bay you have many areas of both high-rise buildings and warehouse districts. The requirements to both defend and attack in all those unique terrain types makes for a task that many will find both interesting and challenging. No one tactic or strategy will work equally well in all those areas. The ability to adapt is crucial to success for both players. It will provide endless opportunities for both players to resolve effectively.

 

[ASLSARGE]

Received a message today that MMP announced on the ConsimWorld website that "Sword and Fire: Manila" will go up on pre-sell very soon. That is great news indeed.

 

[Honza]

Received a message today that MMP announced on the ConsimWorld website that "Sword and Fire: Manila" will go up on pre-sell very soon. That is great news indeed.

Hooray! It has been a long time coming.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I did not see any such announcement on ConsimWorld - do you have a link?

 

[hongkongwargamer]

I did not see any such announcement on ConsimWorld - do you have a link?