The Battle of Manila 1945

ASLSARGE

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Another photo showing some of the rubble in Manila. Description does not state where in the city this was taken.....appears to be the City Hall Tower in background. The thick wall on the left of the street suggests it is within Intramuros....possibly just inside on of the gates.
 

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Brad M-V

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Another photo showing some of the rubble in Manila. Description does not state where in the city this was taken.....appears to be the City Hall Tower in background. The thick wall on the left of the street suggests it is within Intramuros....possibly just inside on of the gates.
That's a nice closeup picture, I agree there's definitely a lot of artillery damage. ?
 
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afgur

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Lot of great work, looking forward to seeing this one. Thank you to you and your team.
 

afgur

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Right. The generals were primarily concerned about their troops. Not civilians. If civilians are abused as human shields, the decision to open fire with artillery in an attempt avoid casualties of one's own soldiers, one is still the cause of these civilian casualties despite their Japanese abuse as human shields.

If buildings had been cleared room by room and the Japanse had killed their hostages, then the responsibilities for these particular civilian casualties would rest with the Japanese.

So if the end result had been the same, still there is a difference in responsibility.



Amen to that.

von Marwitz
according to the laws of war the harm or death of human shields is the responsibility of the holding force regardless of who pulled the trigger.

Thanks
Alan
 

von Marwitz

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according to the laws of war the harm or death of human shields is the responsibility of the holding force regardless of who pulled the trigger.

Thanks
Alan
Is that so, really? I am ready to learn anytime, so I'd be grateful if you could provide sources.

Yet even if you were correct from a legal point of view, I still think this does not free those pulling the trigger from responsibility in certain situations.

If a soldier's life is directly and immediately threatened by his adversaries using human shields and would not firing at these human shields result in a high chance of injury or even death for the said soldier, then he would not be justified but exculpated if he pulled the trigger.

In case of a bombardement, this is not the case and those who ordered it bear responsibility. At minimum from the moral standpoint. It should further be asked if a bombardment of civilian residential areas is proportionate with regard to the desired objective. Per se, the life of a soldier is not worth more than that of a civilian.

Of course, I acknowledge, that war is shit and that it extorts unenviable decisions from those in charge.

von Marwitz
 

ASLSARGE

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Back to the game discussion. Last scenario as Japanese I had 100mm OBA with Plentiful ammo and first chit automatically black. SR way off, then drew red card. Lost radio contact...drew second red card. That is my typical luck with OBA....never got to drop any HE...and I wanted to use it to cover one flank so I could strengthen the other flank and center.....sigh. Anyone else have this sort of bad luck with OBA?
 

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Hi ASLSARGE

absolutely - 50% of the time! at least and then I roll boxcars, spinal tap or puppy paws so the HE does very little when it does come down

but one must earn "King of Boxcars"

Cheers

Rob ?
 

afgur

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Von Marwitz
Not trying to hijack thead but to answer your question about sources, I'm remembering this from my days in the US Army (75-95). This was outlined in the Geneva Conventions and Laws of War, I don't recall actual titles. I did a bit of reading on this from Army pamphlets and regs, having to teach it. I remember it being quite controversial.
ASLSarge thanks for your indulgence and patience. I'm done on that.
Again, looking forward to seeing a great module.

Thanks
Alan
 

Vic Provost

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Yeah, great module indeed, from all the hard work these guys obviously did over many years now.

I look forward to this as much as any recent HASL

Good luck with getting it published 'soon', I'll pre-order a copy ASAP when ready, Vic.
 

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'Manila '45' is a fascinating time/place in military history. Sounds like the design and playtest teams have developed an outstanding product. For afgur and von Marwitz you might like to refer to ICRC and the Law of Armed Conflict... there are significant differences between pre-1949 and post, especially regarding 'civilians' in the battlespace and concepts like the 'responsibility to protect'. ICRC-Civilian
 

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Last week we finished a scenario that had several unusual events, The most bizarre happened to me. I had a broken US 666 MMC, who during the subsequent RPh as the first MMC self-rally created a Leader....a 7-0. Cool! I can always use another one of those guys. In that MPh they come under fire and the 7-0 breaks while the 666 Pins. Another fire attack....HOB. Everybody rallies! Yay! Finish my move and join up with another 666 in a stone building. DFFPh, a "1" Sniper attack is generated.....the dreaded direction and distance selects.....you guessed it....my stack with the new 7-0 and two 666's. Random selection rolled....3,3,3. Some days it just does not pay to have good things happen to start your turn. I probably screwed something up in that entire process, but no matter. Next turn my 120mm OBA lands right where I want it......my DR's for effects? 11, 12,12, 11, 10, 12, 11. Good thing my M4A1 Sherman crew was ready for battle. They got off around nine or ten shots in the game, and four were CH's. Looks like it is time for a trip to the nearest game store to get some new dice.
 

Honza

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When you get a yahtzee on a random selection DR for sniper attacks the sniper can only attack ONE of those targets. The other targets are re-rolled. So with your 7-0 and 2x 666 only one of those would have suffered the '1' sniper attack. The other two require a re-roll.
 

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sigh. Anyone else have this sort of bad luck with OBA?
Few months ago (in the Chicago Open), I played with the Pleva rule for the first time (red chits go back in, add a red chit, keep drawing).
I lost contact or pulled a red chit (6-7x) on all but one turn. Never converted an SR. It was annoying, but became a good memory, lol!
 

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absolutely - 50% of the time! at least and then I roll boxcars, spinal tap or puppy paws so the HE does very little when it does come down
Boxcars and puppy paws I knew, but I finally got the spinal tap reference. Lightbulb?.
 

ASLSARGE

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For the past several years, there has been a map circulating around the internet on many different websites and blogs. It is reputed to be a document created by General Mac Arthur's Intelligence Division. It shows, in great detail, all the Japanese pillboxes, gun positions, machine gun emplacements, barbed wire, trenches, mines, and obstacles located in and around Intramuros. It lists the data as being from POW's, observation, or Filipino informants. Many of the guns are labeled as to their type and caliber (ie: 150 mortar, AA gun, AT gun, etc). Very detailed info for history buffs.
I was thinking that having MMP include this as part of the documentation as it might be of interest to those who purchase the game. The cost of one page would be a few pennies at most. Thoughts from the group? Should I have MMP include it?
 

hongkongwargamer

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For the past several years, there has been a map circulating around the internet on many different websites and blogs. It is reputed to be a document created by General Mac Arthur's Intelligence Division. It shows, in great detail, all the Japanese pillboxes, gun positions, machine gun emplacements, barbed wire, trenches, mines, and obstacles located in and around Intramuros. It lists the data as being from POW's, observation, or Filipino informants. Many of the guns are labeled as to their type and caliber (ie: 150 mortar, AA gun, AT gun, etc). Very detailed info for history buffs.
I was thinking that having MMP include this as part of the documentation as it might be of interest to those who purchase the game. The cost of one page would be a few pennies at most. Thoughts from the group? Should I have MMP include it?
Absolutely!
 

ASLSARGE

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The Luckiest SOB's around.
Some MMC's just live the charmed life. Case in point. I was reviewing some of the playtest AAR's from previous years and ran cross one that gave me a chuckle once again. An American 666 toting a flamethrower stumbles across an HIP Japanese 347. The shot halts the squad. Another Japanese squad with a LMG opens up and generates HOB. Hero created. They move one more hex to enter a stone building for protection. AP Mines!. 6fp attack, no effect. Squad now moves upstairs (CX) and spends their last MF Searching. HIP Japanese 447 in adjacent building hex found. He opens up point blank. No effect. Next American MPh the Hero takes the FT and moves downstairs to cook up the 347. Rolls a "12". He advances back upstairs for some friendly company with lots of Japanese milling about. The 666 stripes the upstairs 447, then advances into CC....ambush. Rolls a 3. Next turn the 666 moves downstairs and out to their objective.....a large adobe building half a block down the street. As they move down the empty street they come into the LOS of an HIP pillbox with a crew and an HMG, Weapon fires....rolls a "12". Squad changes direction to the PB and enters into CC. No ambush. Squad rolls a "4", crew rolls a "10". Next MPh the 666 goes into the objective building and finds it deserted......until they advance into the cellar, finding two concealed 447's and an 8-0 , thinking both cellar stacks were dummies. American squad gets ambush, rolls a "2". One 447 gone. Next turn a friendly stack of two 666's and a 9-1 enter the cellar and join in on the fun. Americans again roll a "2", Japanese roll an "11". Last turn the Americans move upstairs where they come under fire from a 25LL (12) AA gun. It gets rate.....four shots total. The plucky 666 just brushes them all off like no big deal. The other two 666's and the 9-1 all break from the same shots. Game ends with Americans securing the needed Victory buildings to win. Sometimes it pays to be lucky rather than good. That 666 squad could easily have gotten KIA'd at several points during that game, but somehow beat the odds.
 

JRKrejsa

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For the past several years, there has been a map circulating around the internet on many different websites and blogs. It is reputed to be a document created by General Mac Arthur's Intelligence Division. It shows, in great detail, all the Japanese pillboxes, gun positions, machine gun emplacements, barbed wire, trenches, mines, and obstacles located in and around Intramuros. It lists the data as being from POW's, observation, or Filipino informants. Many of the guns are labeled as to their type and caliber (ie: 150 mortar, AA gun, AT gun, etc). Very detailed info for history buffs.
I was thinking that having MMP include this as part of the documentation as it might be of interest to those who purchase the game. The cost of one page would be a few pennies at most. Thoughts from the group? Should I have MMP include it?
Yes.
 
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