The Arnhem ASL Tournament is back! September 12-15 2024

Ray Woloszyn

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Luckily I only have it 4 hrs by train! (I was hoping for a partisan armored train but alas...)
Will, the note I got was that details would be forthcoming. I am looking to attend also. Perhaps we can throw in again as at Grenadier last year. Ray
 

bprobst

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At least in America. Are you planning to attend?
Yes I am, but it's a little difficult to arrange with no information at all on the venue. The last information I was given was that the site would be updated within 2 weeks (that was a month ago).

I suppose I could just fly in to the Netherlands and wander the streets of Arnhem while calling plaintively for gamers, but I'd prefer to be a little more organised than that.
 

Jeffrey D Myers

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Yes I am, but it's a little difficult to arrange with no information at all on the venue. The last information I was given was that the site would be updated within 2 weeks (that was a month ago).

I suppose I could just fly in to the Netherlands and wander the streets of Arnhem while calling plaintively for gamers, but I'd prefer to be a little more organised than that.
Oosterbeek might be more pleasant, Bruce!
 

bendizoid

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I would start near the bridge, probably within sight.
 

von Marwitz

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I suppose I could just fly in to the Netherlands and wander the streets of Arnhem while calling plaintively for gamers, but I'd prefer to be a little more organised than that.
Sounds a bit like the adventures of Crocodile Dundee in New York! Don't forget to bring your "knoife" and a grenade for fishing. ;)

von Marwitz
 

Partizan Eric

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Don't worry, Andreas will definitely respond to us soon. The latest news is that we will all be staying at the Stay OK Hotel where the tournament is taking place.
 

bprobst

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Well, I have registered!

I have to say that I find the Tournament SSR to be baffling. As in, why? I don't see the point of them (well, except maybe the OBA one -- I understand the point of it, even if I don't like it). My attitude is that the players have attended so that they can play ASL-as-written, not ASL-as-someone-else-wants-it-to-be. Keep your house rules to yourself, etc. Tournament rules are for the conduct of the event, not how to play the game.

I guess I'll be leaving my dice at home -- I don't use (or own) any precision dice, and I don't use a dice tower (I roll my dice in a plastic cup, and use a mouse pad to protect the table and muffle the noise).

I'm sure we'll all have fun regardless!
 

von Marwitz

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Well, I have registered!

I have to say that I find the Tournament SSR to be baffling. As in, why? I don't see the point of them (well, except maybe the OBA one -- I understand the point of it, even if I don't like it). My attitude is that the players have attended so that they can play ASL-as-written, not ASL-as-someone-else-wants-it-to-be. Keep your house rules to yourself, etc. Tournament rules are for the conduct of the event, not how to play the game.

I guess I'll be leaving my dice at home -- I don't use (or own) any precision dice, and I don't use a dice tower (I roll my dice in a plastic cup, and use a mouse pad to protect the table and muffle the noise).

I'm sure we'll all have fun regardless!
I agree.

Battle School precision dice are not precision enough to be allowed unless agreed on by both!?
Seriously?

This is beyond anything I have ever come across in all these years even by the precision dice enthusiasts in this forum. I find such a tournament rule preposterous and quite farcial.

Quite frankly, if someone would insist imposing that rule on me in the tournament, I'd rather walk away giving the freak the "win" without giving him a game. Who knows what other crazy convictions I might expose myself to in a game on top of that by such a player? Wasted lifetime...

von Marwitz
 

Mister T

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I agree.

Battle School precision dice are not precision enough to be allowed unless agreed on by both!?
Seriously?

This is beyond anything I have ever come across in all these years even by the precision dice enthusiasts in this forum. I find such a tournament rule preposterous and quite farcial.

Quite frankly, if someone would insist imposing that rule on me in the tournament, I'd rather walk away giving the freak the "win" without giving him a game. Who knows what other crazy convictions I might expose myself to in a game on top of that by such a player? Wasted lifetime...

von Marwitz
Each tournment has its own rules and it is up to each player to decide whether they want to attend or not.
 

von Marwitz

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Each tournment has its own rules and it is up to each player to decide whether they want to attend or not.
Yes, no issue with that.

But just sayin'...

The statistical difference even between "normal" MMP dice and theoretical "perfect" dice is so minor and insignificant, not to say irrelevant. Compare it to the occasion of a roll (Boxcars can have no consequence at all on many occasions, but they can make all the difference if they malf your single all important key weapon).

Why one should care about the difference between precision dice and - struggling for a term - hyper precision dice (which are still not perfect dice) eludes me, as the impact on chances of the outcome of a game is glaringly irrelevant.

So one can still wonder, why the tournament attaches so much importance on such statistical irrelevance to see the need to impose a special rule to "address" a problem which is not there. Sure, one could impose a special law to cover the case of a pink DC-3 aircraft crashing on a green and red striped '63 Cadillac with two monkey passengers on 5th Avenue in New York on a Wednesday morning. Chances are, that you've wasted your paper.

[Shrug] Whatever...

von Marwitz
 

Actionjick

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Well, I have registered!

I have to say that I find the Tournament SSR to be baffling. As in, why? I don't see the point of them (well, except maybe the OBA one -- I understand the point of it, even if I don't like it). My attitude is that the players have attended so that they can play ASL-as-written, not ASL-as-someone-else-wants-it-to-be. Keep your house rules to yourself, etc. Tournament rules are for the conduct of the event, not how to play the game.

I guess I'll be leaving my dice at home -- I don't use (or own) any precision dice, and I don't use a dice tower (I roll my dice in a plastic cup, and use a mouse pad to protect the table and muffle the noise).

I'm sure we'll all have fun regardless!
What is the tournament rule about dice? I didn't see it upthread.
 

WuWei

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What is the tournament rule about dice? I didn't see it upthread.
"3. Precision Dice and Dice Tower
We would like all players to use precision dice (with dots and ball-cornered). Semi-Precision dice like Battleschool dice are not precision dice and not allowed unless you and your opponent agrees upon using them (you are allowed to change your mind anytime during play). Always plenty of precision dice available to lend out and for sale. Would like all players to use a Dice tower, if possible, noisy dice equipment is NA. Dice towers are available to lend out and perhaps for sale. DICE-TOWER USAGE When a DR or dr is made each die must, together with each other die, be rolled through the full height of the dice-tower and end its roll flat on the tower-floor. Otherwise, the entire DR or dr must be re-rolled."
 

Actionjick

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"3. Precision Dice and Dice Tower
We would like all players to use precision dice (with dots and ball-cornered). Semi-Precision dice like Battleschool dice are not precision dice and not allowed unless you and your opponent agrees upon using them (you are allowed to change your mind anytime during play). Always plenty of precision dice available to lend out and for sale. Would like all players to use a Dice tower, if possible, noisy dice equipment is NA. Dice towers are available to lend out and perhaps for sale. DICE-TOWER USAGE When a DR or dr is made each die must, together with each other die, be rolled through the full height of the dice-tower and end its roll flat on the tower-floor. Otherwise, the entire DR or dr must be re-rolled."
Thanks! Very helpful.
 

bprobst

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Each tournment has its own rules
Wow, really? 30-odd years of attending tournaments and I never realised this. :rolleyes:

Sarcasm aside, statements like yours, while completely accurate, are also completely useless.

The issue is whether the tournament rules are sensible rules, and that is (IMO) a useful area of discussion. (And that's all it is -- discussion -- not a call for action!)

Statements like yours are no different to saying "shut up" and are meant to close discussions, not add to them.

If you don't want to participate in the discussion -- that's fine, just don't post anything. If you don't want to read the discussion, that's fine too, that's up to you. It's not cool, however, to just tell other people to shut up because you don't like, or are not interested in, what's being said.
 

von Marwitz

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I try to accommodate people who dwell on the dice thing. Usually I let them pick my dice or I use theirs, whatever they want. I just want to get on with it and play ASL, not a biggie.
Fair enough.

I have no problem with having people using any dice they want - including super-duper-hyper-atomic-clock-lasered-precision thingies.
I believe, though, acceptance of dice preferences should be reciprocal.

Were the difference of outcomes in a game resulting from different types of dice in any way coming close to statistical relevance, I would see the point.

But as it is, the given rule seems not to serve the purpose of balance.
Instead it serves the purpose of "I can only play with my mind at rest, if hyper-precision dice are used, even if it does not make any statistical difference to the outcome of a game." At the same time I wonder what is on the mind of such people when he (or heaven forbid) his opponent inadvertedly topples a stack during a game. If statistical relevance on the outcome of a game would be at the heart of the matter, that running game would be dead in that instant then and there.

As you do, one could just roll one's eyes, let them have their way and get on with it.
But what if the next one - sarcasm intended - can only play with his mind at rest if his opponent has dyed his hair pink?

My approach would be to keep Pandora's Box shut, including the example of "normal precision dice are not precision enough if you come across someone with dice Angst".


It is the respective TDs which set the rules for their tournaments, no question about that.
But I believe it is fair enough to question the sense of a particular rule.
If there were a poll amongst the tournament's participants if they feel that this dice rule is necessary or not, I am sure on what outcome I would place my bet.

Anyway, I will not further dwell on this matter because I believe the nudge to think about it has been made.

von Marwitz
 

MichalS

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I actually find the dice and dice tower rules cited above constructive and the organiser apparently tries to provide equipment for those who do not want to invest into such items.

Why they are constructive in my opinion: For those who do care about dice it is a bigger problem that their opponent does not have precision dice than it is for those who don't care about dice that their opponent does have precision dice. (This is nicely demonstrated by bendizoid and partially by von Marwitz above, even though I don't get his point about reciprocity.) And that is irrespective of whether we agree on any statistical significance of precision dice.

And then there's the thing with noise - again, the same general principle is valid: for people who care about noise the clunk of dice in a glass is a bigger problem than for those who don't care that the room is quieter. (And I personally approve since I don't like noise.)

Dyed hair is of course an irrelevant hyperbole which does not add any weight to the argument.
 
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Actionjick

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I actually find the dice and dice tower rules cited above constructive and the organiser apparently tries to provide equipment for those who do not want to invest into such items.

Why they are constructive in my opinion: For those who do care about dice it is a bigger problem that their opponent does not have precision dice than it is for those who don't care about dice that their opponent does have precision dice. (This is nicely demonstrated by bendizoid and partially by von Marwitz above, even though I don't get his point about reciprocity.) And that is irrespective of whether we agree on any statistical significance of precision dice.

And then there's the thing with noise - again, the same general principle is valid: for people who care about noise the clunk of dice in a glass is a bigger problem than for those who don't care that the room is quieter. (And I personally approve since I don't like noise.)

Dyed hair is of course an irrelevant hyperbole which does not add any weight to the argument.
The reciprocity would be that if an opponent insists that you must use precision dice you insist that he must use non precision dice. Seems equitable to me. Further thoughts on this topic, if any, will be posted in the Shanghaid thread.

Regardless of the tournament special rules I hope that all who attend will have a great time!
 

Sparafucil3

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The reciprocity would be that if an opponent insists that you must use precision dice you insist that he must use non precision dice. Seems equitable to me. Further thoughts on this topic, if any, will be posted in the Shanghaid thread.
I hate these rules. Not because they aren't fair or I don't agree with them, but because they put the onus on my to be the bad guy. You can use your "not X" dice unless I point out they aren't allowed. If you're a TD and you have the juevos to make such a rule, then enforce it at the door. Don't put the pressure on the players to enforce your pet peeve. Man up and do it yourself or don't make the rule.

Just to be 100% clear: I don't mind the rule, I take exception with the enforcement. Your rule, you be the bad guy. Don't make me be the bad guy. -- jim
 
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