Thank You France!

Whizbang1963

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Once again I got to celebrate my country's independence because of your assistance in 1777-1778

Merci que le peuple de la France pour nous aider obtient notre liberté et indépendance !
 

Calimero

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Once again I got to celebrate my country's independence because of your assistance in 1777-1778

Merci que le peuple de la France pour nous aider obtient notre liberté et indépendance !
You're welcome !
There were a few fights through History we were glad to have each other, didn't we ?:salute:
 

SamB

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Very true. It's sad and a little silly to see politicians and sheep denigrate a great friend and ally such as France.

More than once we've fought on the same side. And more than once we've squabbled like brothers. :cool:

The USA didn't get where they are today by themselves. Thanks to those who have helped, and here's to an even better future.
 

Tork

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E.I. du Pont de Nemours, founder of the American gunpowder and chemical industry, emigrated with his family from France in 1800 to the USA. He was a student of Lavoisier. The family needed to skip town before an appointment with Madame Guillotine...

According to Wikipedia, du Pont de Nemours produced half of the powder for the American Civil War.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Certainly the people of northern France have a special relationship with the North Americans. When Régiment de la Chaudière landed on Juno Beach with the reserve brigade of 3 Cdn Inf Div, one of their first contacts with the "locals" produced at first stunned shock in the Frenchman, then kisses on both cheeks. The Norman dialect and French-Canadian dialects in 1944 were apparently almost identical - and the Norman told the embarrassed infantryman "Canadian? No my boy, you're a Frenchman like me!"

There was still a need for some "subtle" reminders of where people were and how to act. The sign below was posted in Dieppe after the liberation in September 1944:

 

Glennbo

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Thank you France for Louis Pasteur. This great man has saved hundreds of millions of lives with his important discoveries concerning infectious diseases.

And I get annoyed at people knocking the French efforts in WWII. They lost 93,000 men killed trying to stop the Nazis in 1940. That's not something to joke about. They lost more men killed fighting the Nazis during the whole war than either Britain or America. French divisions played important roles in Italy and in the liberation of Europe.
 

Paul M. Weir

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I have always viewed the anti French tone of the Bush era with great annoyance.

Despite the fact of their defeat at the hands of the Germans in 1940, remember that the French DID declare war on Germany in 1939. The US did not enter WW II, despite FDR's best efforts, until attacked by Japan. Even then it was Germany that declared war on the US, not the other way round.

The US army did not do too well (like everybody else) in it's first encounter with the German Army, either. If the French had the time and space to learn how to fight the new style of warfare, then maybe 1940 would have been different.
 

Michael Dorosh

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I have always viewed the anti French tone of the Bush era with great annoyance.

Despite the fact of their defeat at the hands of the Germans in 1940, remember that the French DID declare war on Germany in 1939. The US did not enter WW II, despite FDR's best efforts, until attacked by Japan. Even then it was Germany that declared war on the US, not the other way round.

The US army did not do too well (like everybody else) in it's first encounter with the German Army, either. If the French had the time and space to learn how to fight the new style of warfare, then maybe 1940 would have been different.
There wasn't a "new style" of warfare in 1940, not really. The Germans were doing what they had always done - critical mass (schwerpunkt), the encirclement, and the battle of annihilation, married with principles the British Army had mastered in 1918. The French did have some mechanized infantry in 1940, also, with halftracks (the DLC regiment/divisions) and were remarkably modern if one looks at their org structure, but as is well known, they frittered away their tanks and mech infantry into small packets. Their communications were abominable, running IIRC entire corps through single switchboards.

Still, the DLC had high quality soldiers and maintained their combat effectiveness longer than the French line infantry - wasn't enough to stop the breakthrough in the Ardennes, but there were a few bumps along the way for the Germans. Stonne was another famous one that ASL players are familiar with. The French were not completely clueless about how to organize and fight in the "new world order", they just needed to be dragged kicking and screaming into it - a little too little, and a lot too late. There were young advocates of the tank - de Gaulle for one - in the peacetime army in France, just as there were in every modern country in the world, but they weren't able to convince the older establishment figures to let them have their way.

But that's ok, it was the same way in Germany, too - Hitler refused to let the panzer commanders run roughshod in Poland and France - and especially at Dunkirk - and even the oh-so-vaunted Germans were still hidebound to tradition and a need to protect their flanks at the same time the French were second-guessing their commitment to the Maginot Line (not hard to do with German tanks a 100 miles inside of it).

The Germans didn't win because they outfoxed everyone with a lot of razzle-dazzle and secret new tactics. They were just really good, and ultimately, the French and British were, unfortunately for them, really bad at what they tried to accomplish. It doesn't take away from their bravery or from the very real tactical victories that many field formations managed to wrest during the six weeks of fighting. It is a testament, I think, to the cost of unpreparedness in peacetime - a lesson we in the democracies keep dooming ourselves to repeating, willingly.
 
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Tater

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Despite the fact of their defeat at the hands of the Germans in 1940, remember that the French DID declare war on Germany in 1939. The US did not enter WW II, despite FDR's best efforts, until attacked by Japan. Even then it was Germany that declared war on the US, not the other way round.
And it is a source of great annoyance to hear this BS again and again...

France & GB declared war in 1939 and then just sat there...waiting...

Why should the US have declared war on Germany? They hadn't attacked the US, they made no threat against the US, they couldn't possibly even reach the US and they were in GB's and France's back yard. Not to mention that GB and France were, at that time, owners of global empires whose armies were acclaimed some of the best in history. In point of fact, up until GB and France got their butts kicked no one supposed that they would have any trouble handling the Nazis. The US on the other hand was barely 75 years from a gut wrenching civil war and had no where near the military force or economy to be going about declaring war on anyone. If the US had declared war on Germany in 1939 we would have done little more than GB or France were doing...which was Sitzkrieg.

And while we are on the subject...

The French and British soldiers fought bravely in 1940...but the fact is their leadership (militarily and politically) was worthless. And, as it turned out, the US was proved justified in not declaring war to support such half-wit leadership. As we see GB being ignobly kicked off the continent and France not only capitulates but actually CHANGED SIDES!

And let's not ever forget that had GB and France stood up to Hitler in 1936 over the Rhineland there would have been no war.

But I guess you are right...the US should have looked into their magic crystal ball and seen that GB and France were being lead by a bunch of idiots who couldn't find their a$$ in a dark room with both hands and a flashlight. :nuts:
 

fwheel73

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The anti-French tone predated the Bush era by some years.
Keeping perspective........

And of course, the anti-American attitudes predated the anti-French tone as well.... maybe since 1789.

I suspect that the individual Frenchman likes the individual American (freely exchange Brit, Scot, Irish, German, Pole, Russian, Italian, Turk, Arab after the words-- "individual") but where the problem lies is in the goverment of each country where "national interests" are superior to individual human relationships. French, German, Spanish, Italian, British, Irish "national interests" are not particulary in line with American interests (although they should be:D). Of course, that is the way it has always been.

I appreciate the points in time that our respective national interests coincided--they are not now--.... individual peoples have generally always been friends.

And so it goes....

Best regards,:salute:
John
 

Calimero

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And it is a source of great annoyance to hear this BS again and again...
As we see GB being ignobly kicked off the continent and France not only capitulates but actually CHANGED SIDES!
What a strange thing to say. Why do you say that ? Because their was a governement in the mainland that collaborated with the Germans ? Because factories produced goods for the German Army ? Because there were local groups of Facists enforcing the New Order ? Because some nationals enlisted in the SS ? Because Jews were deported ?
All that of course is (sadly) true ... but it is also the case for the following countries : Norway (production of iron ore, Norwegian SS, Quisling governement), Slovakia (providing entire divisions for the Eastern front), Belgium (Leon Degrelle and his party forming a local Nazi party with militia, eventually forming a Belgian division), Holland (numerous Dutch in the Gestapo and the SS) ... Would you say all these countries are populated by nazi traiters and turncoats ? Or, for some reason, is this just France ? :devious:

And it is a source of great annoyance to hear this BS again and again...
Couldn't agree more.:(

I take no particular pride in hearing the "thanks" sent to France by Americans for the actions during the Independence. It was a long time ago, my family was barely French (Louis the XV sent the first support to the Americans and in the sam time annexed Corsica) and it was a very different governement (Kingdom vs. Republic).
But I've always appreciated the US and US citizens, and enjoyed every stay I've done there. I've also made sure that every American Friend visiting France I've had enjoyed the stay. Both our societies have their advantages and their limits, both our policies have their flaws and their faults. But I've always marveled at the ability of some (US or French) to darken the picture and to woe the entire country as a whole. In my opinion, this behaviour is more revealing of a certain lack of self confidence than it is of historical prospective understanding (and that certainly also stands for the left-wing anti-US masses in France).
 

Markdv5208

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Aren't we a little early anyways for saying thank you France? I mean, Bastille Day isn't until July 14.

Don't make me turn Guy Fawkes on you guys now....tick tock tick tock (as he slowly backs away into the nice white van and the men with the white jacket with long arms gets ready to grab him again....)

Mark DV
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Will Fleming

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Everyone in France was very friendly to us when we visited for a week. I think they are like Americans more than either side really cares to admit.

Very kind and helpful to a couple of generation X 'yanks'.
 

Michael Dorosh

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In my opinion, this behaviour is more revealing of a certain lack of self confidence than it is of historical prospective understanding (and that certainly also stands for the left-wing anti-US masses in France).
I don't want to derail this thread any further, because I thought the notion of a tribute to the French was a cool one, but I really like this comment. It goes hand in hand with a suspicion of mine, and that is this: Insecurity has fuelled about 99.9% of history, from the dude trying to embarrass you at the freshman mixer, to the dude who invaded your country for "living room". It's generally been about, to my mind, insecure guys feeling bad about themselves doing the wrong things to try and put things right.
 

Ray Woloszyn

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I think some here should watch "Les Vacances de M. Hulot" on TCM to lighten up a bit.

On my mother's side my great-grandfather was French and my great-grandmother German, both from Alsace Lorraine. During WWI while living in NYC they both agreed to stick to English from then on so as not to get involved in what one can imagine was a lot of the same lame talk involving national predjudices like that found in a typical internet forum.
 

Calimero

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I think some here should watch "Les Vacances de M. Hulot" on TCM to lighten up a bit.
That and "Mon Oncle" ... are so hilarious and typically French ... :clown: Thanks for the Ray of light Ray (pun intended)
 

Tater

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What a strange thing to say. Why do you say that ?
Asked...

Because their was a governement in the mainland that collaborated with the Germans ? Because factories produced goods for the German Army ? Because there were local groups of Facists enforcing the New Order ? Because some nationals enlisted in the SS ? Because Jews were deported ?
OK...

All that of course is (sadly) true...
Answered...
 
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