TCS, the series - your thoughts?

Blackcloud6

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its a great system and I'm getting my interest back after Lee said his about ready to finalize the rules so we can get back to playing ... hope you stick around .....
I have them all and wll more than likely play TCS again in the future. I made the wrong assumption that it would not take long to do the rules revisions and just waited for the new set of rules to come out. Little did I know it would be five years and still waiting.
 

CPRad

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I have them all and wll more than likely play TCS again in the future. I made the wrong assumption that it would not take long to do the rules revisions and just waited for the new set of rules to come out. Little did I know it would be five years and still waiting.

Hey ... your not the only one that made those assumptions .. but holy hannah has it been 5 years !?! ....
 

Kishel

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So is Mike MacCullum the guy who has developed the three TCS game into VASSAL format .. and will their be other games ...
I can only speak for Bloody Ridge because I put that one into VASSAL. Will there be more? I sure hope so, it seems that VASSAL is the only way I am going to get to play any of these fun looking games, or any others, these days.

I am right now trying to get going on GBII (OCS) for VASSAL, and have told Lee that I would do anyother TCS games. I think that there needs to me some call for it over on the TCS folder at ConSimworld. So if people start talking about it more like this.....they will be put into VASSAL. Once I can get going on GBII that will be the last in that series to be put into VASSAL.
 

CPRad

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I can only speak for Bloody Ridge because I put that one into VASSAL. Will there be more? I sure hope so, it seems that VASSAL is the only way I am going to get to play any of these fun looking games, or any others, these days.

I am right now trying to get going on GBII (OCS) for VASSAL, and have told Lee that I would do anyother TCS games. I think that there needs to me some call for it over on the TCS folder at ConSimworld. So if people start talking about it more like this.....they will be put into VASSAL. Once I can get going on GBII that will be the last in that series to be put into VASSAL.
More power to ya Hans ... if you can get the rest of the TCS lineup done.

How can one help?

I've DL'ed all three TCS games on VASSAL and looked at them briefly. I hope to play one very soon with the new unpublished rules to see how they work with released games.

I've contacted Lee and asked him to log on here to say a few things. Lee is so very busy juggling real life and trying to put the TCS rules to bed and push some TCS subs closer to pre-pub.

After several post exchanges with Blackcloud6 and realizing its been around five yrs that the rules have been in limbo, it made me think why so long.

Then I remembered .. we started out with the tanks and tried to make them more realistic (three phase) ... then we decided to review the whole sheebang .. so 5 yrs later .. the rules are basically the same, (Dean developed a wonderful system), so TCS is basically unchanged but we're in for a better streamlined series in my mind.

Back to the VASSAL option, I agree with you Hans my pool of ftf ASL players is down to nil since my buddy who is in the forces was posted out west earlier this year and without VASL I'd be left with solitaire or nothing so a TCS VASSAL would greatly improve the access to opponent, anywhere.

Why aren't we pushing this TCS VASSAL out there? is it only because we're waiting for the rules to become final?
 

AdrianE

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Seeing that MMP has Matanikau on sale today only for $15.00, I can't help but think to take the big plunge (laugh) into this series of games. I do enjoy the CWBS, but have held off on TCS since I'm heavily into ASL. I realize that the scale is different and of course the orders system is unique to TCS.

What are some thoughts on this series from those of you that have played it?
I'm like you. I'm an ASL player who bought a TCS game to see what it was about. I read the rules and decided that it was the stupidest POS tactical game possible. Command and Control is the only redeeming feature.

So many things are missing from the game that should be in a grand tactical wargame. The armour systems are just plain wrong. Artillery is grossly overpowered. Defending guns aren't hidden so they are easy to avoid or kill.

As an ASL player, I think you will find the TCS series lacking. Save your money.
 

CPRad

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I'm like you. I'm an ASL player who bought a TCS game to see what it was about. I read the rules and decided that it was the stupidest POS tactical game possible. Command and Control is the only redeeming feature.

So many things are missing from the game that should be in a grand tactical wargame. The armour systems are just plain wrong. Artillery is grossly overpowered. Defending guns aren't hidden so they are easy to avoid or kill.

As an ASL player, I think you will find the TCS series lacking. Save your money.
Hmmm POS eh .... What game from the TCS series do you have Adrian?
 

CPRad

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ok AdrianE .... so

You got your feel for TCS just from reading the rules? ..... wow you're good.

Anyway if you're the proud owner of one of the first five games I'd have to somewhat agree with the idea that the artillery was a bit off. The Armour, yup unrealistic, they were simplified to keep the game flowing. The main idea was the C & C and the game was built around it.

But if you've read the rules you would have understood that these were meant for an infantry style game with tanks .. hmmmm similar to SL.

As more games were added to the TCS releases it became apparent to the TCS fans that more realistic rules for tanks were needed as well as a revamping of the arty rules. The concealment issue I think is dealt with nicely by using spotting ranges .... so what if you can still them on the board, if you played the game you'd see that there are so many other more important issues/situations that will confront you on the battlefield game wise, a mere ATG shouldn't spoil the fun.

So unfortunately unlike SL/ASL evolution TCS is still in the grips of its own. But there is light at the end and we will shortly as I'm told, be given an improved version that should satisfy the masses.

I invite anyone to correct or add to anything I may have said here
 

'Ol Fezziwig

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I'm like you. I'm an ASL player who bought a TCS game to see what it was about. I read the rules and decided that it was the stupidest POS tactical game possible. Command and Control is the only redeeming feature.

So many things are missing from the game that should be in a grand tactical wargame. The armour systems are just plain wrong. Artillery is grossly overpowered. Defending guns aren't hidden so they are easy to avoid or kill.

As an ASL player, I think you will find the TCS series lacking. Save your money.
Funny; I first got interested in TCS way back in the day when ASL was foundering in neglect from AH. With prospects grim for new ASL, a review of GD '41 in The General picqued my interest enough to pick it up.
I was aware that the scale was a level up from ASL and that much of our beloved tactical minutea was going to be abstracted out or within the games' mechanics, so I did not expect it to be platoon-level ASL. The C&C rules were an eye-opener, as were the comparatively simpler artillery rules (as a disclaimer, I don't find ASL OBA too terribly odious). Certainly, the armour treatment was nowhere near the level of detail of ASL, but I accepted, and still do, it for what it was.
I do not play TCS, or unfortunately, much other in the way of wargames presently, but I am fond of TCS. It is a playable system with just enough chrome to prevent it from being a reheated version of PB/PL/AIW. In the end, you play the game, it does not play you.

In some ways, I find it superior to ASL: C&C in particular, as you cannot always react as The Omniscient Player to events on the board. Sometimes that Command Prep Rating is going to bite you on your arse when your opponent slips a flank unexpectedly or hits you where you are unprepared. This is a hallmark many of the The Gamers lines and a big attraction of them as well.
I'd always recommend picking up an inexpensive copy of any of these games when you can to at least give them a try and judge for yourself. In the case of a $15 Matanikau, I'd think the investment a good one, even if you decide you don't care for the system yourself. Me, I really don't like the NATO symbology, preferring the icons, but what 'cha gonna do?:rolleyes:
 

Keith Todd

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More power to ya Hans ...

....

Why aren't we pushing this TCS VASSAL out there? is it only because we're waiting for the rules to become final?
Actually I am waiting to see how you do the orders with TCS by VASSAL PBEM.

Any suggestions?

Keith
 

CPRad

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Actually I am waiting to see how you do the orders with TCS by VASSAL PBEM.

Any suggestions?

Keith
I see that someone made an attempt in the SEiH VASSAL game with an Orders Button.

Don't know if it works properly but its a step in the right direction I think .....

Larry
 

sgtstinky

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Hi all, I just picked up a copy of Screaming Eagles and I looking for some one to play via VASSAL, any takers?

Bryon
 

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Panzer Grenadier is a very light game compared to TCS. TCS requires a lot more thought. You have to write out orders, and then, like a real commander, hope they get implemented when you want them and how you want them.

Plus you can play some TCS games via VASSAL. That alone is enough reason to avoid Avalanche Press games.
 

CPRad

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Plus you can play some TCS games via VASSAL

Exactly ......

I did a quick read about PG ...and it seems it resembles PBlitz or PLeader in some ways.
 

Michael Dorosh

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I have copies of both on my shelf; the scale is the same for PB, PG, and TCS - platoon sized - which is why I ask. Haven't gotten around to reading the rules for them. Very interesting that the approaches are so different. No surprise that PB is so different - it is the very first tactical level board game ever invented. TCS is a very successful series going back to Bloody 110. Panzer Grenadier is doing pretty well in its own right, too - a little more recent but a lot of different titles. I can only presume they are making money enough to support it.

What I like about TCS is the historical maps and OOB. PG is more open ended and slightly less "historical" - seems like ASL in that regard - close your eyes and squint and "pretend" you have a historical OOB - but more flexible in modelling other situations. You obviously can't do that as easily with a TCS map.

TCS is sort of like HASL and PG is like plain ASL if one had to make a comparison, I guess. Or PG would be like the "old" SL given its simplicity, to take it a step further?
 

'Ol Fezziwig

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I believe PG is doing a historical Monte Cassino module (their Guadalcanal module is also a historical module, as well); mayhaps that's the route they may take to continue to perpetuate the series.
 

CPRad

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I believe PG is doing a historical Monte Cassino module (their Guadalcanal module is also a historical module, as well); mayhaps that's the route they may take to continue to perpetuate the series.
I was looking at their website and saw a few new modules that are based on historical maps .... they also deal with individual leaders. TCS's Omaha has a few leader counters but none of the other games do.

I agree with Michael's last post in his description of the differences ....

I also prefer historical maps and that is why I like the TCS games & HASL modules.

I found PB & PL boring but the command control of TCS was the touch that added that extra unknown factor .. great system and I can't wait for GD'42 ... only one more order before it reaches the magic number ...
 

jwb3

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I have copies of both on my shelf; the scale is the same for PB, PG, and TCS - platoon sized - which is why I ask.
Interestingly, I just realized that I always tried to compare TCS to ASL, not to PL, despite the different unit scales involved. (TCS for me basically means "Bloody 110", which I own but never played, and also watching some friends play the GD '40 Stonne game.) Although the map scale of TCS is 125 meters/hex, which is pretty much halfway between PL's 250 and ASL's 40, the detailed style of graphics and the use of hedges always makes me associate it with ASL. And yes, TCS is sort of like HASL from my perspective as well.

While refreshing my memory of what TCS's scale is, I happened across the following BGG discussion comparing TCS and PG, which you might find interesting:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/141365


John
 
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