Tapio Does it again

Proff3RTR

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1. Oh, so I haven't been around long? I first bought SL in 1980, bought ASL when it first came out and have bought stuff from CH for at least 15 years.

Well done, Some here have been around in the war gaming world longer than that and will go at CH at the drop of a hat so the above mean nothing, I bought PanzerBlitz back in 81 or 82 so not much gap in our buying period, I bought SL in 84 or 85, I forget now, so what? does that prove anything, nope.

2. You say people need to be warned about CH as they buy it only because it is badged ASL. If you were even remotely right, CH would now be out of business as those people would surely only buy once and never again - yet CH are probably selling more now than ever.

why this is, who knows, but his practices are rotten, pure and simple.

3. So far as I am aware nobody has been running a pro CH campaign. It just wouldn't be worth it in the face of the inevitable hostile outburst from the thought police.

There are one or two gems in the CH stable, but the vast majority of stuff is tripe, and the way Tapio acts is even worse, no matter how much you polish a turd, it is still aturd and no amount of good PR will change that.

If you never bought anything from companies that had ever plagiarised other people's ideas or missold products, you wouldn't buy much in this world. The fact is that people buy stuff from producers when it suits them, in their own interests and regardless of corporate history.

Tapio does this all the time, he does so because it is so much of a hassle to bring him to account, Real men who hold their principles high do not roll others ideas etc, look in the mirror and ask your self would you do what he does and still be comfortable with calling yourself a man? also the mere fact that you clearly accept that he carries out what he does speaks volumes.

I think we should leave it there. The truth is one tribe of ASL players are doctrinally opposed to CH and enjoy riding their "purist" guardians of ASL fantasy. Another tribe fully accept that CH have a long history of producing weak scenarios, miscut/misprinted counters, rehashed games, maps that need the borders cutting off etc etc BUT occasionally produce gems such as Omaha, Berlin, Tarawa etc etc and will therefore continue to buy their products albeit on a selective basis.

That will continue, as said, some gems in the CH stable, but not many, What YOU need to understand is the vast majority of ASL players ARE opposed to Tapio and how he does business, and always will be. Please feel free to have a CH love in, I fear though not many will be there.
 

Tuomo

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If you never bought anything from companies that had ever plagiarised other people's ideas or missold products, you wouldn't buy much in this world.
There is a nugget of truth in this ("Good artists copy, great artists steal" - Picasso) but at some point a line gets crossed and then one's sense of rightness kicks in.

I think we should leave it there. The truth is one tribe of ASL players are doctrinally opposed to CH and enjoy riding their "purist" guardians of ASL fantasy.
Eww, I don't wanna be like THOSE guys. They sound like fancy Elves or something. I bet they bathe in rosewater and read Proust or something.

Another tribe fully accept that CH have a long history of producing weak scenarios, miscut/misprinted counters, rehashed games, maps that need the borders cutting off etc etc BUT occasionally produce gems such as Omaha, Berlin, Tarawa etc etc and will therefore continue to buy their products albeit on a selective basis.
Ooh! I like the sound of THESE guys! Accepting! Selective! Independent thinkers! Rebels, even! You can't tell THESE guys what to do! You can warn them, give them a heads-up about shady practices to avoid throwing their money at, even appeal to their basic sense of ethics, but they say HELL NO! YOUR LESSONS DON'T APPLY TO ME! I'M AS GULLIBLE AS I WANNA BE! DON'T TELL ME WHO'S DEALING THE SHITE, EVERYBODY'S GOTTA MAKE A LIVING!

Dude. By all means, go walk in bad neighborhoods at night. And when you get mugged, don't complain about muggers.
 

Gunner Scott

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On one hand I do agree with many sentiments here, on the other hand, sometimes Ray might put out something interesting on rare occasions. I think this year I bought two modules from him, St Lo and Central Stalingrad, the counters were so gawd awful, I sold them off on ebay. But there are people out there that buy everything, they might not play it, but it will look nice on the shelf lol.
 

clubby

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Hey, do muggers send out a weekly email that reads like a poorly written and way too wordy Harlequin romance? Actually that makes muggers better not worse.
 

bendizoid

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Sometimes they leave poems

Charles Earl Boles (b. 1829; d. after 1888), also known as Black Bart, was an English-born outlaw noted for the poetic messages he left behind after two of his robberies. Often called Charley by his friends, he was also known as Charles Bolton, C.E. Bolton and Black Bart the Poet
At the fourth robbery:

"I've labored long and hard for bread,
For honor and for riches
But on my corns too long you've tread,
You fine-haired sons-of-bitches.
Black Bart, the P o 8"



At the fifth robbery:

"To wait the coming morrow,
Perhaps success, perhaps defeat
And everlasting sorrow.
Yet come what will, I'll try it once,
My conditions can't be worse,
But if there's money in that box,
It's munny in my purse.
Black Bart, the P o 8"

Lol, the Po8
 
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Tuomo

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Tho others came before me
Worked long and diligent
Labours of love created
I do na' give a shint

I'll whip off cheapass copies
Just change a thing or two
Enough to please the lawyers
Should someone say "J'accuse"

For who needs playtest after all
Tis such an ugly waste
Eats into profits when you crawl
When you better off make haste

Oh sure, I've got detractors
High-minded know-it-alls
Who Tsk and say How Dare You
and Haven't You The Gall

Well, yes, I do admit it
My reputation's well earned
But Barnum said it best, I think
A sucker's born each minute
And better left unlearned
 

Proff3RTR

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So are you done with that DTW map for VASL?
Sorry Scott,

Not yet, I have as said been distracted by OCS/TCS and now GBoH, it is almost there, I will address it, and as soon as done will get it vasl'd and up on the VASL site. (and it will be copyrighted:cool:).
And truth be told ASL is not my point of main effort at this moment in time.
 
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Hutch

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Tuomo: Well played Sir!, Jolly well played!
 

Rock SgtDan

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Any map of the USSR is obviously the property of the proletariat collective. Any attempt to use such for capitalist gain or personal aggrandizement is a punishable offense against the State.
 

Martin Mayers

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Just seen a Critical Shit product on Ebay which, in one photo, taken from the front cover, sums up most of what is wrong with those crooks...



A) This is a total rip off of some-one else's idea

B) Yup, they couldn't be arsed even proof reading the fucking front cover of the damn product....Turret-MAKERS

Total imbeciles. You wanna buy this shite, then knock yourself out as far as I'm concerned. Snake oil salesmen have always done well off the back of people with more money than sense.
 

Martin Mayers

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1. Oh, so I haven't been around long? I first bought SL in 1980, bought ASL when it first came out and have bought stuff from CH for at least 15 years.

2. You say people need to be warned about CH as they buy it only because it is badged ASL. If you were even remotely right, CH would now be out of business as those people would surely only buy once and never again - yet CH are probably selling more now than ever.

3. So far as I am aware nobody has been running a pro CH campaign. It just wouldn't be worth it in the face of the inevitable hostile outburst from the thought police.

If you never bought anything from companies that had ever plagiarised other people's ideas or missold products, you wouldn't buy much in this world. The fact is that people buy stuff from producers when it suits them, in their own interests and regardless of corporate history.

I think we should leave it there. The truth is one tribe of ASL players are doctrinally opposed to CH and enjoy riding their "purist" guardians of ASL fantasy. Another tribe fully accept that CH have a long history of producing weak scenarios, miscut/misprinted counters, rehashed games, maps that need the borders cutting off etc etc BUT occasionally produce gems such as Omaha, Berlin, Tarawa etc etc and will therefore continue to buy their products albeit on a selective basis.
You can run a pro-CH campaign if you wish mate. Who's stopping you?

Do I know you? Note you're down in Dorset. Do you attend Intensive Fire?
 

footsteps

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Just seen a Critical Shit product on Ebay which, in one photo, taken from the front cover, sums up most of what is wrong with those crooks...



A) This is a total rip off of some-one else's idea
I don't believe the *idea* of making turret counters is protected.

B) Yup, they couldn't be arsed even proof reading the fucking front cover of the damn product....Turret-MAKERS
Plus, he put *all* the vehicle info on them too, instead of only the turret-relevant info. So I'm in total agreement with you on this point.
 

goatleaf1

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No, I have never been to Intensive Fire. No, I have no wish to run a pro CH campaign because I couldn't care less whether or not people buy CH stuff or why. Hence my interest in the reasons for the vociferous anti brigade who so clearly do care.

It might be worth remembering that for every ASL player who is active on a forum or who attends competitive tournaments, there are probably a hundred other ASL players who just keep their heads down, play the way they want and buy what they want in splendid ignorance of the perceived wisdom of the leading lights of the hobby.

You're right Prof - I will revert to running quiet as interacting on forums invariably leads to unpleasantness if you are not of the majority view. An exception seems to be the superb rules questions and answers section which I consult daily where differences of opinion seem to be expressed in a scholarly and civilised manner. I suppose the key is that whether or not CH have any merit is a matter of opinion whereas whether you have a rule right is a matter of fact.
 

Martin Mayers

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No, I have never been to Intensive Fire. No, I have no wish to run a pro CH campaign because I couldn't care less whether or not people buy CH stuff or why. Hence my interest in the reasons for the vociferous anti brigade who so clearly do care.

It might be worth remembering that for every ASL player who is active on a forum or who attends competitive tournaments, there are probably a hundred other ASL players who just keep their heads down, play the way they want and buy what they want in splendid ignorance of the perceived wisdom of the leading lights of the hobby.

You're right Prof - I will revert to running quiet as interacting on forums invariably leads to unpleasantness if you are not of the majority view. An exception seems to be the superb rules questions and answers section which I consult daily where differences of opinion seem to be expressed in a scholarly and civilised manner. I suppose the key is that whether or not CH have any merit is a matter of opinion whereas whether you have a rule right is a matter of fact.
I'm not being funny mate but you realise that it's YOU creating the unpleasantness here.

I was asking if I knew you so I could say HELLO

Touchy bastard
 

Proff3RTR

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You're right Prof - I will revert to running quiet as interacting on forums invariably leads to unpleasantness if you are not of the majority view. An exception seems to be the superb rules questions and answers section which I consult daily where differences of opinion seem to be expressed in a scholarly and civilised manner. I suppose the key is that whether or not CH have any merit is a matter of opinion whereas whether you have a rule right is a matter of fact.
I believe it all depends on how quickly we get upset or turn all touchy, rugged debate and leg pulling seems a bit rough for some eh:p and as to the CH having any merit, mmmmh, some, yes, but to be honest, CH do more damage than good to this hobby, that much has/is well known and proven.
 

RRschultze

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Just seen a Critical Shit product on Ebay which, in one photo, taken from the front cover, sums up most of what is wrong with those crooks...



A) This is a total rip off of some-one else's idea

B) Yup, they couldn't be arsed even proof reading the fucking front cover of the damn product....Turret-MAKERS

Total imbeciles. You wanna buy this shite, then knock yourself out as far as I'm concerned. Snake oil salesmen have always done well off the back of people with more money than sense.
Say what you mean there Martin, don't sit on that fence!

Oh by the way I'll bring those six CH nationality sets you ordered next time I see you
 

Martin Mayers

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He will run quiet Martin, now that you have rumbled him.:p
Not without a "drops microphone" moment mate.
Say what you mean there Martin, don't sit on that fence!

Oh by the way I'll bring those six CH nationality sets you ordered next time I see you
Including the black WAffen SS counters ?
 
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