Tapio Does it again

witchbottles

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On All Fronts probably does not own the copyright. The publisher of On All Fronts cannot give permission to redraw a map they published without the authority of the original creator. Generally, when On All Fronts published the map and module they (probably) did so as first publication rights. Tom retained all remaining rights. I doubt Tom sold all copyrights to the publisher of On All Fronts without a contract. If it was Tom's map then Tom needs to send the letter.
If it was Tom's work then Tom has to enforce his copyright by sending the letter. Nobody can do it for him.
I would agree 110% that Tom Morin may enforce his rights (with or without Don Petros or others whose primary work is in the module) - but I do not agree that he has a requirement that he must do so. Tom(or the others), could decide if preferred, to simply ignore it. That would be their prerogative. :)
 

witchbottles

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everything,

CH turned the map upside down and have played around with a few things, if you can not see it then you do not see, it, wait until I release my take on the Dzershinsky Tractor factory map and lets see how many people 'Do not see it'
Did you get permission for this from the copyright holder for the DTW module first? :)D)
 

clubby

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I would agree 110% that Tom Morin may enforce his rights (with or without Don Petros or others whose primary work is in the module) - but I do not agree that he has a requirement that he must do so. Tom(or the others), could decide if preferred, to simply ignore it. That would be their prerogative. :)
I believe the implication is that IF any letter is to be sent, it's Tom's responsibility to do so and nobody else. Not that Tom MUST send a letter.
 

RandyT0001

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I would agree 110% that Tom Morin may enforce his rights (with or without Don Petros or others whose primary work is in the module) - but I do not agree that he has a requirement that he must do so. Tom(or the others), could decide if preferred, to simply ignore it. That would be their prerogative. :)
I was trying to point out that if Tom decides not to enforce his copyright with a letter to CH then Don Petros cannot send a letter instead since they had collaborated on a revised map together. Tom is the only one that can do it. There is no requirement that he must do it, it is his choice.
 

MatrimSaric

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But once informed if copyright is not enforced the it is lost. Which is why some people prefer not to be told
 

Proff3RTR

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Did you get permission for this from the copyright holder for the DTW module first? :)D)
as seems to be the way it is MY interpretation of the DTW area of fighting (I will await the Tapio defenders Howling for my blood on that one), As I have had pointed out to me, CH's map of the CRS map is different to mine, well my take on the DTW map will be different to CH's, different graphics, buildings in the right places, different colour scheme etc, so it will be a totally different map, which as some have pointed out makes it all ok:D
 
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Gunner Scott

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looks like he is releasing more and more stuff. I guess he must have read the orange turds Art of The Deal. lol
 

footsteps

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What I don't understand is this line from the Teutonic Terror "line" of packs:
3 of the new 12 1/4" × 18.25" Geo boards from the new series about to become 50 boards!
I've no interest is scouring through the site to find further explanation/evidence, so if someone already knows, please enlighten us.
 

xenovin

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Alan,
It sounds likes from the web page that CH will be doing 50 fort type maps with the first 9 or so in these three packs. I read it a few times and it sounds like old scenarios reformatted to play on these new maps. To be followed by snazzy winter versions of same maps followed by monster hex, etc. it is the olive oil process applied to ASL - lol
What I don't understand is this line from the Teutonic Terror "line" of packs:

I've no interest is scouring through the site to find further explanation/evidence, so if someone already knows, please enlighten us.
 

goatleaf1

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The world is in a particularly parlous state at the moment because somehow the spirit of fundamentalism has permeated even people who would formerly have been described as liberals. I just don't get this moronic and seemingly ceaseless campaign against CH which seems to be slavishly followed by so many. These people need to face up to the facts that (1) nobody forces them to buy stuff from CH and (2) many other people do buy stuff from CH because they like it. It seems to me that those who cannot live with that must have similar instincts to those of the worst totalitarians that history has thrown up.
 

witchbottles

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The world is in a particularly parlous state at the moment because somehow the spirit of fundamentalism has permeated even people who would formerly have been described as liberals. I just don't get this moronic and seemingly ceaseless campaign against CH which seems to be slavishly followed by so many. These people need to face up to the facts that (1) nobody forces them to buy stuff from CH and (2) many other people do buy stuff from CH because they like it. It seems to me that those who cannot live with that must have similar instincts to those of the worst totalitarians that history has thrown up.
I am far from a detractor trying to convince people to NOT buy from CH.... But I can still offer up some sideline-seat philosophy on why some rant to extremes about this:

1. Shoddy quality control. This has got to be the #1 issue I see with Critical Hit. You and I both order the same product on the same date, from the same batch run. Yours will be missing a mapsheet, mine will have the counter perforations cut into the ML #s on the counters from a horrible off-set, and two extra mapsheets, including your missing one. When you get burned enough times in such horrible quality control issues (especially after paying the exorbitant overseas shipping prices from the U.S.), you decide it is important for people to CAVEAT EMPTOR!. I agree it is important that potential customers are aware of an overall lack of quality control at CH as it ships out the door. I won't rant on that, but it is important nonetheless.

2. Got burned by Ray Tapio / ripped off by Ray Tapio in a design or development effort. Plain and simple, this is a personal grudge. I do not pretend to be someone who would deny you a grudge against any business that gave you the raw treatment in a business deal and stole your ideas to run with them without your permission. This is bad behavior that alienates Ray himself from many other ASL players who believe better ethics are a prerequisite of this game system. In my narrow view, the people whose I.P was stolen by Ray have every right to bitch and scream and throw proverbial tantrums online about his bad ethics. As always, however, YMMV here.

3. Sincere desire to see newbies not get "taken to the cleaners". If you have a choice (and you do), of buying MMP's version of BR:T or CH's version of BR:T, both selling at about the same overall cost - (MMP *might* be more by a small sum, but a bit of shopping around can usually find it at the same cost as CH's version) - why encourage newbies to buy a TPP product over an official product? Same thing for Ray's silly "map board" extravaganza. The "I'll move this woods hex there and call it a new map, cut them into half-boards, and sell them for $16.00 each" routine is a sheer waste of a newbie's money when a full ASL map bundle is readily available from MMP. I'm all for buy TPP if it is not available or in the hands of players from MMP sources - but once it is, I'm going to look to better quality control and better support of the companies I prefer to do business with in order to get my ASL products. Again, YMMV would always apply here.

4. The "I'm better at this than you, so do what I say" tirade. I am sure anyone spending enough time on ASL-related online forums can name at least one shining example of this characterization. To me, it's what comes out from behind a ponytail, pure and simple, and I call it that when I see it. But the fact remains that it still occurs, and it has a habit of annoying some aficionados of this game system. If someone enjoys reading such ranting behavior online, however, more power to them.

There may be others, I'll not pontificate all the various permutations that cause this knee-jerk reaction every time someone mentions Ray or CH in an ASL crowd. For me, I suffice to say CH is a minefield with rare gems just under the surface. Step carefully, you'll find ASL goodness in a few of their products - Hell's Bridgehead, Panther Line, Bandenkreig, the DTO scenario Packs, TRBH, Counterattacks, and so on... Step wrong and your wallet gets sent home in a body bag with big pieces missing from its money compartments. so as I noted above - CH shopping = caveat emptor.

KRL, Jon H
 

kynken

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What I don't understand is this line from the Teutonic Terror "line" of packs:

I've no interest is scouring through the site to find further explanation/evidence, so if someone already knows, please enlighten us.
Not in the least interested.
 

RobZagnut

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The world is in a particularly parlous state at the moment because somehow the spirit of fundamentalism has permeated even people who would formerly have been described as liberals. I just don't get this moronic and seemingly ceaseless campaign against CH which seems to be slavishly followed by so many. These people need to face up to the facts that (1) nobody forces them to buy stuff from CH and (2) many other people do buy stuff from CH because they like it. It seems to me that those who cannot live with that must have similar instincts to those of the worst totalitarians that history has thrown up.
You obviously haven't been around long. Sooner or later he's going to burn you.

1) Some don't know any better and need to be warned.

2) Many buy because it says ASL and they assume it's the same quality as MMP, BFP, LFT and others, but it isn't and they don't discover that until it's too late.

And I can never understand the idiotic and never ending campaign for CH. Once you've learned how he's ripped off scenarios from other designers, renamed scenarios and modules then sell them as new products, never playtest some scenarios, and change mapboards and sell them as new ones, you would realize how stupid you sound.
 

goatleaf1

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1. Oh, so I haven't been around long? I first bought SL in 1980, bought ASL when it first came out and have bought stuff from CH for at least 15 years.

2. You say people need to be warned about CH as they buy it only because it is badged ASL. If you were even remotely right, CH would now be out of business as those people would surely only buy once and never again - yet CH are probably selling more now than ever.

3. So far as I am aware nobody has been running a pro CH campaign. It just wouldn't be worth it in the face of the inevitable hostile outburst from the thought police.

If you never bought anything from companies that had ever plagiarised other people's ideas or missold products, you wouldn't buy much in this world. The fact is that people buy stuff from producers when it suits them, in their own interests and regardless of corporate history.

I think we should leave it there. The truth is one tribe of ASL players are doctrinally opposed to CH and enjoy riding their "purist" guardians of ASL fantasy. Another tribe fully accept that CH have a long history of producing weak scenarios, miscut/misprinted counters, rehashed games, maps that need the borders cutting off etc etc BUT occasionally produce gems such as Omaha, Berlin, Tarawa etc etc and will therefore continue to buy their products albeit on a selective basis.
 

witchbottles

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1. Oh, so I haven't been around long? I first bought SL in 1980, bought ASL when it first came out and have bought stuff from CH for at least 15 years.

2. You say people need to be warned about CH as they buy it only because it is badged ASL. If you were even remotely right, CH would now be out of business as those people would surely only buy once and never again - yet CH are probably selling more now than ever.

3. So far as I am aware nobody has been running a pro CH campaign. It just wouldn't be worth it in the face of the inevitable hostile outburst from the thought police.

If you never bought anything from companies that had ever plagiarised other people's ideas or missold products, you wouldn't buy much in this world. The fact is that people buy stuff from producers when it suits them, in their own interests and regardless of corporate history.

I think we should leave it there. The truth is one tribe of ASL players are doctrinally opposed to CH and enjoy riding their "purist" guardians of ASL fantasy. Another tribe fully accept that CH have a long history of producing weak scenarios, miscut/misprinted counters, rehashed games, maps that need the borders cutting off etc etc BUT occasionally produce gems such as Omaha, Berlin, Tarawa etc etc and will therefore continue to buy their products albeit on a selective basis.
If you have been around that long, you would likely know that Rob Wolkey used to be a part of Critical Hit and left because of Ray's dishonest business practices towards ASL customers. If anyone ever had a legitimate right to bitch about CH and Ray, - the Wolkster is him.

KRL, Jon H
 

Aaron Cleavin

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You support MMP right? Which is subsidized by kurt shilling and he ripped off millions of $$ from tax payers in Maine or some such eastcoast state. So who is the bigger scum bag?
Curt to my knowledge has no pecuniary or other interest in MMP now and has not done so for at least 8-10 years.
 
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