TacOps Tactical Discussion Group #2 - Red Defense

pmaidhof

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2002
Messages
536
Reaction score
0
Location
New York
Country
llUnited States
pmaidhof said:
Being that it is a 120 minute scenario, please leave a message here when you have finished or assume that you will be wrapping up.
John Osborne said:
When is the results of this battle needs to be posted?
How about by Friday December 3, 2004. That gives the average TacOps player a chance to celebrate Thanksgiving (Tanksgiving to you treadheads), recover from the gouging on Friday, meet the absolute minimums on the honey-do list over the weekend, make a tangible contribution at work, complete the scenario, and summarize it here on warfarehq.
 

John Osborne

Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
831
Reaction score
0
Location
Leavenworth, KS
pmaidhof said:
How about by Friday December 3, 2004. That gives the average TacOps player a chance to celebrate Thanksgiving (Tanksgiving to you treadheads), recover from the gouging on Friday, meet the absolute minimums on the honey-do list over the weekend, make a tangible contribution at work, complete the scenario, and summarize it here on warfarehq.
Works for me :nuts:
 

GCoyote

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Messages
457
Reaction score
0
Location
Laurel, MD, USA
Country
llUnited States
Nice Job

pmaidhof said:
Any preliminary comments?
Thanks for doing the set up.

I don't think it's unwinable for Blue, depends partly on the AI's choice of avenues of attack. Blue has plenty of artillery and maneuver space as well. Just need to be creative. :devious: We shall see.

I have a couple of preliminary ideas for the next scenario but I need to get though this one first. ;)
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
234
Reaction score
0
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
Yep - finished yesterday, and was bloodier than it should have been due to my screwups. :(
 

Redwolf

Member # 3665
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
5,113
Reaction score
43
Location
MA, USA
Country
llUnited States
I'm down with another hardware blowup right after I sorted out the harddrive mess. Now my Windows machine CPU is on strike.

However, I would very much like to play this and will hopefully be able to do so by Friday. Thanks for setting it up Pete. Don't take intial low response as a sign of desinterst.
 

pmaidhof

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2002
Messages
536
Reaction score
0
Location
New York
Country
llUnited States
Redwolf said:
Don't take intial low response as a sign of desinterst.
Not at all Sir. I know with the holidays, CPX planning etc. time is tight for all around. The beauty of our discussion group is that we are all enthusists (sp?) and will make time for the enjoyment of it.

I look forward to many more scenarios with our merry band of TacOp'ers.
 

GCoyote

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Messages
457
Reaction score
0
Location
Laurel, MD, USA
Country
llUnited States
Gallager 4 Modified

pmaidhof said:
Finished today. Extremely bloody. Will not go further until this friday. :p
Actually it wasn't as bad as I expected. Still analyzing the results.
 

pmaidhof

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2002
Messages
536
Reaction score
0
Location
New York
Country
llUnited States
pmaidhof said:
How about by Friday December 3, 2004. That gives the average TacOps player a chance to celebrate Thanksgiving (Tanksgiving to you treadheads), recover from the gouging on Friday, meet the absolute minimums on the honey-do list over the weekend, make a tangible contribution at work, complete the scenario, and summarize it here on warfarehq.
Players, please begin posting result, comments, etc tomorrow. Hopefully this will encourage some tactical discussion and lead to the next scenario.
 

John Osborne

Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
831
Reaction score
0
Location
Leavenworth, KS
pmaidhof said:
Players, please begin posting result, comments, etc tomorrow. Hopefully this will encourage some tactical discussion and lead to the next scenario.
Sorry Peter, I dropped the ball on this scenario. Working on my CPX and doing planning on this weekend CPX, which may be postpone due to Blue side haven't send in their orders to the umpire.

I didn't play out the scenario. I will do the next one.
 

Redwolf

Member # 3665
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
5,113
Reaction score
43
Location
MA, USA
Country
llUnited States
Need more time. The computer gods are against me.

Useless info: now Maxtor is refusing warranty on one of the broken drives because their test program doesn't detect an error. Hardly surprising given that that test program runs on DR-DOS in slowest ever IDE mode. The moment I connect the drive to an actual operating system it gives hard errors. Just great. Stuff like that makes up my tactical "playing" for 6 weeks now.
 

pmaidhof

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2002
Messages
536
Reaction score
0
Location
New York
Country
llUnited States
Redwolf said:
Need more time. The computer gods are against me.
:cry:

Martin, When do you expect to be back up and running? Being we are a small group, we can wait as long as you need.

Gary, you mentioned that you had an idea for the scenario in Tactical Discussion Group3. Do you want to start a new thread and begin plotting the new scenario concept?

Please advise.
 

Redwolf

Member # 3665
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
5,113
Reaction score
43
Location
MA, USA
Country
llUnited States
I will (again) dig out some old PC from junk parts to try to play in the CPX Saturday. If the Major didn't disable Win95 yet that should work. I could do your scenario Friday evening in that case.

Wait, "junk"? That stuff never failed. Long live the P2B!
 

GCoyote

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Messages
457
Reaction score
0
Location
Laurel, MD, USA
Country
llUnited States
TacOps Tactical Discussion Group #3

pmaidhof said:
Gary, you mentioned that you had an idea for the scenario in Tactical Discussion Group3. Do you want to start a new thread and begin plotting the new scenario concept?
New thread started: TacOps Tactical Discussion Group #3 :D
 

GCoyote

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Messages
457
Reaction score
0
Location
Laurel, MD, USA
Country
llUnited States
Coyote's Solution

Probably not my best effort with the holidays but it worked well enough. I didn't follow a particular doctrine except to look for flank and rear shots as discussed.

I pushed a screening force out as far as I could before making enemy contact. This let me pick off the isolated recon units, gave me good surveillance in spite of the 2000m visibility, and got the OPFOR to waste more artillery on various tree lines east of my actual position.

Since only the BRDM2 and BMD1 [both with AT-5] could take a head shot at an M1, I positioned them to take the early long range shots and set a low-priority for tanks on all of them. I used most of my BMPs to move and support my Javelins since they were my next most effective AT system. BMPs had a low priority set for APCs since I figured them to be more effective against the Strykers than anything else.

I set my tanks where I though they could get the best flank shots but I set their priority for "unit w/ ATGM". I wanted to make sure I got as many of the TOWs and AT-7s as possible before I tried to break contact. [that did not work too well.] I put one team in a very risky position in the woodline vic 098019. I planned to destroy the first OPFOR company to pass by there and then withdraw to the next position.

Since two OPFOR battalions came down the center and only one took a high speed AA, I concentrated my TacAir on the southern units and proceeded to pound the #$#$ out of the two center battalions with artillery. I did a count of secondary explosions during the replay and the MLRS alone destroyed 13% of the OPFORs vehicles.

I was doing better than expected until I tried to disengage my forward tank units. The dismounted AT-7s were prett well supressed. The entire unit was destroyed by a Platoon of M1's. That pushed my losses up to 22%.

One thing that did work well was pre-registering artillery right in front of my most exposed forward positions. I think that is one reason that the forward tank units held out as long as they did.

I've uploaded my replay files to the TacOps misc file area as before.

So how did you guys make out?
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
234
Reaction score
0
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
I'm wondering in places if we played the same scenario. :) Maybe we used different checkboxes?

The replay files are at home and I forgot to post them last night. [Edit: Tried from home, and the replay zip file is about four times too big to post here. Oh well.]

My AT-5 missiles could not take on an M-1 from the front. However, I had a large number of Javelins that could!

Also, Blue was blessed in this scenario with large numbers of missile-firing vehicles that could rip Strykers apart.

I essentially deployed my standard Gallagher plan: recon moves forward to find Red and poke its eyes out. Recon drops off infantry units in hide positions. Then I try to use ambush and massed artillery to attrit Red as it comes it me. The tanks sit in the rear as a mobile reserve.

Most of the infantry deploys into a reverse slope defence near the 07 easting line; I screwed this up in the north, putting them actually in the treeline, which prevents long range AT from helping the infantry defend. Due to execution errors, I had the same problem in the south due to a lack of AT systems.

I had not thought through the implications of the 2km visibility; I'd have been happier with longer visibility for easier reaction with artillery and better use of my long range AT missiles.

Execution went OK at first - I realized the trouble of the visibility by losing a few scout vehicles. however, for the most part, shoot-n-scoot nipped apart Red's recon.

Red's recon pattern suggested a force largely interested in the center and south sections of the map. As following forces continued this pattern, I drew forces off of the north towards the south.

During this stage of the recon, I started to get cocky, and tried to build large killer groups out of BMPs and Javelins. the idea was that they'd be a large enough fire group to wipe out a Red company, after which the BMPs would load up the Javelins and back to up repeat.

Unfortunately, the need to stick around to pick up the Javelins meant that these forces became decisively engaged instead of ambushing. Mostly, they died. I should have stuck to the original plan of using the BMPs for ambush and having the Javelins serve to backstop the infantry line.

The BMPs for ambush plan also got into some trouble with Red's tanks, which often were in the lead. Not much I could do about that except drop artillery on their heads.

Some good arty shoots pounded the snot out of Red before they got to the infantry line. It suffered heavily but elements of it survived - pure luck since they did not have the supporting firepower they should have had.

The game declared my victory at 0803; my losses were in about 34%. They rose to 50% by 0900, the vast majority of the increase coming as I tried to counterattack back to the infantry line with my tanks - one of the companies got largely or entirely snuffed out by Red dismounts left behind.
 
Last edited:

GCoyote

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Messages
457
Reaction score
0
Location
Laurel, MD, USA
Country
llUnited States
James Sterrett said:
My AT-5 missiles could not take on an M-1 from the front. However, I had a large number of Javelins that could!
Oops! :nuts: You are correct. "Advanced ATGM warheads" was not checked.

James Sterrett said:
... tried to build large killer groups out of BMPs and Javelins. the idea was that they'd be a large enough fire group to wipe out a Red company, after which the BMPs would load up the Javelins and back to up repeat..
Didn't work that well for me either. By the time I'd fired a volley and tried to pull back, every surviving Red weapon was in range and pounding the Javelin Teams and BMPs. :cry:
 

pmaidhof

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2002
Messages
536
Reaction score
0
Location
New York
Country
llUnited States
Pete's Solution - Do Not Try This at Home

Tactical Discussion Group 2 - Gallager4 Modified

Mech Company 00-03 Northing
Mech Company in reserve along 06 Easting
Tanks 04 Northing attempting flank shots

Turns 1-5

Friendly recon assets move east both in Northern and Southern zones.
Red ICM and HE along 13 Easting, pounding suspected Blue positions.
Additional Air Support granted F16/F18 @ 4 min (blue aircraft reinforcements - a flaw in my editing)
Blue Air Pre-Planned due to delay in arrival.
Blue artillery begins to adjust forward.

Turns 6-10
Contact! 0705:15
Blue recon engages enemy mech recon vic 126016, multiple enemy vehicles destroyed, enemy scouts dismounted, enemy artillery dropping on my recon position - time to bug out!

Contact! 0706:30 Blue ATGM's engage and destroy multiple enemy vehicles vic 123026, enemy scouts dismounted - no friendly casualties.

Contact! 0707 Red MLRS centered 077024, blue bmp destroyed. Red Strykers AGL's engaged and destroyed by blue Javelin teams vic 114029.

0710 Red airstrike and 3x ICM 103019, mass casualties!

Summary: Red probing South and Central fronts.

Turns 11-15

0711 Red pounding 103019, ATGM destroyed, many casualties.
0712 Red pounding 103019, ICM a plenty! Additional Air Support granted.
0713 Blue airstrike driven off, Blue airstrike hits some dismounts 11/02.
0714 Red artillery shifting to suspected targets along 08 Easting. Multiple Red ADA along 13 Easting Central.
0715 Red airstrike 105013, no effect.

Summary: believe enemy massing along 13 Easting. No contact yet in the north, no main forces anywhere.

Turns 16-20
0716 Blue scout section can see up to 136024 no enemy in sight. Red MLRS 102020 negligable effects. Red Tank Platoon, Stryker Company moving SW along road vic 119013. Assigned airstrike @ 4min and moving arty to TRPs in the areas for ICM strikes.
0717 Red Friendly Fire 12/02. Red tank platoon moving southwest vic 120023
0718 Blue ICM takes out an M1. Red Tank Platoon and Stryker Company attacking on center hill, vic 120024.
0719 Javelins take out two M1's112031.
0720 Red recon destroyed 104006. Red Tank/Stryker attack moving west vic 115020.

Summary: Enemy attacking across highground.

Turns 21-25
0721 two stykers killed by icm, one M1 by airstrike. Air recon reveals Bn+ attack across highground.
0722 Red stryker platoons appear along northern highway.
0723 Blue MLRS nets 6 secondaries vic 112017. Red forces appearalong 10 Eastings in the deep south.
0724 Massive attack in center highlands! Surging air and fire support!
0725 Same Same

Turns 26-30
0726 Close Battle 104018
0727 Oops, T72s meet M1s - not good!
0728 Blue Airstrike shot down!

Turns 31-35
0732 - Lull
0734 - Red MLRS vic 095026 negligable results. Red tanks apparently picking off Blue ATGMs in Southern sector.

Turns 36-40
0737 Red Big Push in South, Holding action in Center, Quiet in the North. Deploying reserve mech company to reinforce the southern front.

Turns 41-45
0741 Airstrike reveals strong enemy push in the center. Red Tank unit vic 097040 sealing off blue forces in the North.
0743 Additional Artillery Ammo!!!!!! Red Mech Company advancing along the southern map edge, virtually more than 50% off - difficult at best to hit with arty.

Turns 46-50
0746 Red MLRS earns 5 friendly secondaries! Red advance along 07 Easting.
0747 Additional Air Support!
0748 Additional Arty Ammo! Blue MLRS blind nets 3 secondaries.

Turns 51-55
Massive butchery, southern sector along 06 Easting.

Turns 56-60
Massive butchery, southern sector along 06 Easting.
0759 Additional Air Support!
0800

Turns 61-65
0803 Addition Air Support!!

Turns 66-92
While slaughtering Red forces in the south, a displacing SP arty unit stumbles on Red forces racing across the central highland.

SUMMARY - Violent clashes leave me with what may perhaps be the slimmest of victorious margins - however, I would not call 95% casualties a win.

Time Left: 28 minutes
Mission results:
Blue - Mission accomplished
Red - Mission failure
Red exit % - 2
Point results:
Blue Attrition Points - 16936
Red Attrition Points - 7777

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Blue Status:

UNIT START NOW ELIM EXITED

Tank, T72M [IQ91]............... 28 1 27 0
Howitzer, SP 152mm 2S5.......... 8 0 8 0
APC, M113....................... 3 1 2 0
SAM, Stinger Team............... 3 1 2 0
ATGMV, BRDM2 Spandrel........... 10 0 10 0
Mortar, Carrier 120mm M1064..... 6 0 6 0
APC, BMD1 IFV AT5............... 4 0 4 0
Inf, Team....................... 28 0 28 0
APC, BRDM2...................... 4 3 1 0
Inf, Scout Team................. 4 2 2 0
APC, BMP1 IFV................... 24 0 24 0
ATGM, Javelin Team.............. 18 2 16 0

Force Lethality Value, Start: 8124
Force Lethality Value, Now: 347
Casualty percentage: 95
Force Lethality Ratio, Start: 1:2.6
Force Lethality Ratio, Now: 1:11.3

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Red Status:

UNIT START NOW ELIM EXITED

APC, Stryker ICV AGL............ 152 16 136 0
Inf, Team....................... 20 4 15 1
APC, Stryker ICV HMG............ 4 0 4 0
Inf, Squad...................... 85 32 49 4
Tank, M1A1D..................... 31 11 17 3
Inf, MG 7.62mm PKM Team......... 27 4 23 0
Inf, AGL AGS17 Team............. 18 4 13 1
ATGM, AT7 Saxhorn Team.......... 27 4 23 0
SAM, SA16 Gimlet................ 30 12 18 0
Inf, SPG9 Team.................. 6 0 5 1
ATGM, AT4 Spigot Team........... 12 3 8 1
Mortar, SP 120mm 2S23........... 18 0 18 0
ATGMV, Stryker TOW.............. 9 1 8 0
AAA, SP 23mm ZSU-23-4........... 4 0 4 0
Howitzer, SP 122mm 2S1.......... 18 0 18 0

Force Lethality Value, Start: 21435
Force Lethality Value, Now: 3921
Casualty percentage: 79
Force Lethality Ratio, Start: 2.6:1
Force Lethality Ratio, Now: 11.3:1
 
Top