Syrians are artificially disadvantaged in CMSF

[thewood]

While Syrians are at a disadvantage in real life, night fighting just twists the knife. One of the few counters to US superiority in night fighting technology would be flares and other forms of illumination. Instead, CMSF doesn't allow for artificial illumination. The Syrians now cannot only not use flares to to expose US troop movements, but they can't use flares to blind US passive night vision.

In WW2, not as big an issue because all sides are limited. But in modern combat, it really limits any lower tech side ability to counter non-TI night vision. I started thinking about this in some of the sighting tests I have been doing.

 

[Redwolf]

Right.

It is a myth that thermal sights turn Western forces into invulnerable supermen at night.

Against morons - sure.

But competent forces spend much of their time coming up with equalizers for the situation. People can be very resourceful when their life is threatened. Flares are just the obvious example. So is thermal aware vehicle management and overhead cover for defensive positions.

 

[thewood]

But the illumination flare is so simple to use and is used anyway just to see the field. Its one of those things that Steve rationalizes away like water obstacles. Even with the inability of the AI to use approbriate tactics, its a must to simulate. If both sides are so hampered, it makes a little more sense, like in WW2. So why include US night vision if you can't provide a most basic counter to it. Its like saying we'll give the US every advantage but if its even remotely difficult, we'll skip the Syrian counters.

It just shows that if something is diffcult to do, Steve can't just come out and say its important but they can't do it. Instead he claims its unimportant, as well as being hard. I don't care what region you are in, bodies of water are important and are key objective by themselves or as a strategic goal that is translated to a tactical one. Same with flares; no offical army would be without mortar fired or trip flares. Even POA2 includes them.

 

[Redwolf]

Have you seen his latest rationalization why Red doesn't get any new units in the NATO module?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Have you seen his latest rationalization why Red doesn't get any new units in the NATO module?

No, what is it?

 

[Redwolf]

No, what is it?

It is because the Syrian units are strictly based on what they have in the real world.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

It is because the Syrian units are strictly based on what they have in the real world.

Their current peace time footing, as opposed to the fictional situation that BFC created. It seems like a flimsy hook to hang the rationale on. So much of the game is based on speculation as it is; armor penetration stats, order of battle; they keep saying that the game is "historical" but the overall situation is fiction from the start. It's such an odd mix of fact and fiction to begin with, I'd be more inclined to err on the side of stretching credulity a bit more and pepping up the red side a bit with additional units.

 

[Redwolf]

The whole thing is very fictional. Just having the Germans come out play tank versus tank is a much larger stretch than Syria buying some new gear, and the game does play in the future.

Pretty lame excuse to not paint some new tanks if you ask me.

 

[thewood]

A long time ago, I recommended throwing in a some Chinese equipment. I bet if there was even a hint of a war coming, Chinese reps would be knocking down the door to sell to Syria. I am sure Chins would jump at the chance to have a staunc ally in the region.

 

[KG_Jag]

BF made up the entire fictional (and expanding) story line. So I guess they can continue to fabricate the continuing story line.

It seems clear that this story line is affected (if not controlled) by how much/little BF wants to include in the game and its modules. This is undoubtedly a bigger factor than what would most likely happen under their fictional premise for the game.

 

[dalem]

It is because the Syrian units are strictly based on what they have in the real world.

That's a pretty weak answer standing alone. He's got to at least acknowledge the dichotomy of setting a game in a fantasy/fictional setting and then locking down an OB to emulate "the real world."

Such an odd little company.

-dale

 

[Redwolf]

Look up the real quote, it is more absurd than my short sentence makes it look like. Unfortunately CM:SF isn't important enough for me to keep links anymore...

 

[thewood]

It also seems not important enough for BFC to put any more work into. I think it has a bad enough reputioan now that they want to move away from it and stop dumping resources into it. As I have said before, they have shown the compunction to abandon products that they forsee as not being runaway hits.

The funny thing is they have finally managed to get CMSF into a state of playability and relevance, just in time to bail on it.

 

[Redwolf]

It also seems not important enough for BFC to put any more work into. I think it has a bad enough reputioan now that they want to move away from it and stop dumping resources into it. As I have said before, they have shown the compunction to abandon products that they forsee as not being runaway hits.

Which kind of is what we want.

 

[avl90]

The funny thing is they have finally managed to get CMSF into a state of playability and relevance, just in time to bail on it.

I share your sentiments.

 

[avl90]

On the original topic, um, if you want to simulate the Syrians having flares, why not just play during the day?

 

[Geordie]

Id actually never thought about flares until this post. Its a good point though, certainly Uk practice is to use flares at night, I have no idea about Syrian doctrine or tactics concerning them though. But we still do and I have used them as recently as last month.

 

[Redwolf]

Flares were standard in WW1.

Individual Syrians are resourceful and intelligent, no matter what their leadership does.

Nobody likes to be shot at without being able to shoot back.

The result is that CM:SF night battles are unrealistic.

 

[KG_Jag]

Flares were in Talonsoft's Rising Sun and in SSI's Fighting Steel--both long ago in computer years.

 

[Elvis]

On the original topic, um, if you want to simulate the Syrians having flares, why not just play during the day?

What happens with night battles in Iraq or Afganistan? Do US troops face flares? I have no idea one way or the other. If they do frequently face them then it is something that should be considered for Syria.