Surrender..or not?

Telumar

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There is something unclear to me how to handle the surrender of minors in EA. The EA briefing states:

Other countries surrender following the loss of their capital [...]
In some cases there may be a short delay before surrender takes effect.
Now, we've got the following case: The barbaric hordes of the Red Army have entered Helsinki. The finish units are still all active on the next turn despite the news saying that Mannerheim requested terms. Is it allowed to fight on until the finnish formations are all withdrawn? Anyway..it won't make be much sense anymore to take back Helsinki as the events have triggered..so what?
 

Mark Stevens

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The Finnish government has requested terms but the fighting continues. The armistice will be signed soon and the bulk of the Finns will be withdrawn. A few units might remain, either deliberately to represent die hard partisans, or because of the famous reconstitution bug. They'll just have to be hunted down and killed, which shouldn't present much of a problem for the Soviets.
 

Telumar

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The Finnish government has requested terms but the fighting continues. The armistice will be signed soon and the bulk of the Finns will be withdrawn. A few units might remain, either deliberately to represent die hard partisans, or because of the famous reconstitution bug. They'll just have to be hunted down and killed, which shouldn't present much of a problem for the Soviets.
Thank you, Marc.

Then.. for Finlands honour! :horse:
 

Telumar

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..it just came to my mind. Would it be allowed to ship non-retreated Finish units to the Reich to serve as an exile Army? We didn't quit the historical course of events yet, so the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact might be problematic role-play wise..
 

Heldenkaiser

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..it just came to my mind. Would it be allowed to ship non-retreated Finish units to the Reich to serve as an exile Army? We didn't quit the historical course of events yet, so the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact might be problematic role-play wise..
There is something in the briefing regarding geographical restrictions on the use of minor nations units. I don't recall what it says with respect to the Fins, but as a rule it seemed that most smaller nations are limited roughly to their corner of Europe. Historical exile force like the Polish excluded. (I already got a Polish division sitting near London.)
 

Mark Stevens

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You can find a more technical explanation if you try a search, but broadly: if a unit is already destroyed and in the queue to reconstitute when its parent formation is withdrawn - in this case by a surrender Event - the unit will still reappear. It does mean that in EA you occasionally get several units from a surrendered country reappearing, e.g. French and Belgians after the fall of western Europe. Nothing to be done, if you disband them they simply reenter the queue and pop up again like vampires. :bite:

We've a House Rule that they constitute die-hard remnants determined to fight on, exiles reforming abroad, large bands of guerillas, etc., and leave them in play. Happens to both sides so probably evens out if you go the distance, but it does mean that the Allies sometimes get significantly larger Free French earlier than they did. They're usually out of supply and pretty weak, so they can be chased down and killed by flak, HQs and security units. The biggest problem is with Soviet western front units scheduled to reappear in - say - Kiev, but you simply have to suspend belief and accept them as large, 'early' partisan bands. Big picture scenario, ahem.

If we'd had enough Events, a second withdrawal about half a dozen turns after the first surrender would probably sweep most of them up.
 

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You can find a more technical explanation if you try a search, but broadly: if a unit is already destroyed and in the queue to reconstitute when its parent formation is withdrawn - in this case by a surrender Event - the unit will still reappear. It does mean that in EA you occasionally get several units from a surrendered country reappearing, e.g. French and Belgians after the fall of western Europe. Nothing to be done, if you disband them they simply reenter the queue and pop up again like vampires. :bite:

We've a House Rule that they constitute die-hard remnants determined to fight on, exiles reforming abroad, large bands of guerillas, etc., and leave them in play. Happens to both sides so probably evens out if you go the distance, but it does mean that the Allies sometimes get significantly larger Free French earlier than they did. They're usually out of supply and pretty weak, so they can be chased down and killed by flak, HQs and security units. The biggest problem is with Soviet western front units scheduled to reappear in - say - Kiev, but you simply have to suspend belief and accept them as large, 'early' partisan bands. Big picture scenario, ahem.

If we'd had enough Events, a second withdrawal about half a dozen turns after the first surrender would probably sweep most of them up.
This was fixed in T3.
 

Heldenkaiser

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Regarding the Finns, I looked it up in the briefing now ... they are limited to Scandinavia (and the northern USSR). :)
 

Telumar

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Regarding the Finns, I looked it up in the briefing now ... they are limited to Scandinavia (and the northern USSR). :)
Provided i managed to get some (or one) of them out (after the official surrender, not yet) i would limit them to these theatres. I'd go further, i would limit them to northern Russia only - can't imagine the Finns taking part in an invasion of Norway or Sweden.. However they may assist in defending one of these countries (Scandinavia) against Russia.
 

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This was fixed in T3.
Tho I'll mention that there are still rogue deployments after reconstitution hexes are over-run, Wyatt!

Care to comment on 'fixed' vs 'mutable' deployment/reconstitution hexes thing?
 

Veers

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Tho I'll mention that there are still rogue deployments after reconstitution hexes are over-run, Wyatt!

Care to comment on 'fixed' vs 'mutable' deployment/reconstitution hexes thing?
Yes.
Wish it was 'fixed'.
 

Telumar

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Tho I'll mention that there are still rogue deployments after reconstitution hexes are over-run, Wyatt!

Care to comment on 'fixed' vs 'mutable' deployment/reconstitution hexes thing?
What do you mean with "rogue deployments"?

When a reconstitution hex (red or blue R in the editor) is overrun,where will units reconstitute?
Could it be that, if there is no reconstitution hex set in the editor, destroyed enemy units that reconstitute can pop up in yet unconverted hexes in one's rear area?
 

Veers

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What do you mean with "rogue deployments"?

When a reconstitution hex (red or blue R in the editor) is overrun,where will units reconstitute?
Could it be that, if there is no reconstitution hex set in the editor, destroyed enemy units that reconstitute can pop up in yet unconverted hexes in one's rear area?
What he means that is that if a unit is scheduled to reconstitute at XX,YY, and that hex is in enemy control, that unit will pop up within a few hexes of that hex.
 

Telumar

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What he means that is that if a unit is scheduled to reconstitute at XX,YY, and that hex is in enemy control, that unit will pop up within a few hexes of that hex.
You mean if the unit has no fixed reconstitution point (reconstitute = yes in the editor) and there is no reentry point (blue or red R) defined?

And only when the hex is owned by the reconstituting units' side?
 

Veers

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You mean if the unit has no fixed reconstitution point (reconstitute = yes in the editor) and there is no reentry point (blue or red R) defined?

And only when the hex is owned by the reconstituting units' side?
If the unit has a fixed reconstitution point, and it is Kiev, and Kiev is occupied, but the hexes a few hexes away are not, that unit, fixed to reconstitute at Kiev, will reconstitute a few hexes away, in a friendly occupied hex.

As to how they react when their respawn point is taken, I don't know.
 

Mark Stevens

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So the difficulty is that when the scheduled Soviet small partisan units appear in the Pripet Marshes, they may convert a hex near Kiev to Allied control, following which the units scheduled to reconstitute in Kiev (all infantry fortunately) will take advantage of this to pop up in that hex. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
 

Heldenkaiser

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So the difficulty is that when the scheduled Soviet small partisan units appear in the Pripet Marshes, they may convert a hex near Kiev to Allied control, following which the units scheduled to reconstitute in Kiev (all infantry fortunately) will take advantage of this to pop up in that hex. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
That's scary! :surprise:
 
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