Suicide Creek Central....

[EagleIV]

Various Suicide Creek questions and comments

Here is several comments I have from playing the CG.

1. I find it odd that at night (with an NVR of 2 or more, and no trip flares) a unit in H15 can't see H16, but can see H17. This is per G2.3. Note that using Starshells doesn't change this.

2. I assume that the foxholes from SC1.4 are free and the minimum size needed to hold the units occupying them. (You can't create a 3S foxhole to hold just a leader with the idea that someone might rout into him.)

3. When trip flares/wire are purchased in a night date, but no scenario takes place are they retained until the next night or can they be used during the next day scenario (see below)?

4. If not found during a night scenario do trip flares/wire remain in play in the same hex during the day scenarios? The next night scenario?

5. Do trip wires work during day scenarios? Can they be purchased and placed during day scenarios? (Useful for striping concealment from units using AM).

6. Can a trip flare be tripped (and the number reduced) during day scenarios even though it doesn't do anything (other than eliminate dummies before rolling to be tripped)?

7. I assume that like other CGs if OBA is retained you can't switch a radio for a phone.

8. It has already be pointed out that the FRD cost of reserve units is the discounted cost, not the discount that is FRD. This means Japanese I3 in reserve costs 2CPP and Japanese I7 in reserve costs 6CPP.

9, The Japanese HQ Sect is way over priced. You are paying 4-5 CPP for a -2 on the leader DR. At least for the Marine HQ Sect you are paying 1CPP for a -3 DR.

10. For the Japanese AT Sect is the T-H-H retained if not used? Does it matter if he was HIP or a DC hero still part of a squad?

11. I assume for the Japanese AT Sect if you get the DC it replaces a HIP T-H-H.

 

[rcornwell]

Suicide Creek CG question

In the first CG scenario are the Japanese allowed to place units in Reserve North of the stream as part of their 6 squads? Feels unintended.


Richard

 

[Aaron Cleavin]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

In the first CG scenario are the Japanese allowed to place units in Reserve North of the stream as part of their 6 squads? Feels unintended.


Richard

Darrell indicated last night it was intended when I chatted to him but good to get written confirmation.

another question is as to whther you can HIP reserves, don't see anything preventing it

 

[rcornwell]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

It says they have to be represented by a cloaking counter. If they are HIP then they aren't. Reserves are supposed to be severely restricted.

 

[John McDiarmid]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

Setting up reserve units North of the stream makes some sense, but are they still limited to no leaders and no SW?

Setting up reserves in the North is actually a huge Japanese bonus as you can start them on the path and either stop the Marines from using the speed benefit for fast movement, or bypassing them (and/or the empty cloaking counters) and maybe have a pile of Japanese units North of you at the end of scenario 1. If the Japanese HIP a real squad with the reserve unit (lets say, in a foxhole) the Japanese actually start in a Strategic location which makes life interesting.

 

[EagleIV]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

I don't think you can ever set up reserves HIP. They have to be represented by cloaking reserve counters.

 

[Aaron Cleavin]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

I don't think you can ever set up reserves HIP. They have to be represented by cloaking reserve counters.

If the counter is HIP it still represents the unit it just doesn't happen to be on the board.

I think HIPing reserves this needs to be more explicitly disallowed, at the moment it is only by fairly indirect implication that it is disallowed.

 

[rdw5150]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

If the counter is HIP it still represents the unit it just doesn't happen to be on the board.

I think HIPing reserves this needs to be more explicitly disallowed, at the moment it is only by fairly indirect implication that it is disallowed.

Hi!

Why does it have to be explicitly disallowed? It seems (to me) that since the rules state that reserve units have to be represented by a cloaking counter, I just assumed that they cannot HIP as nothing gives them the ability to do so......

Just MHO anyway......

Peace

Roger

 

[Aaron Cleavin]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

Hi!

Why does it have to be explicitly disallowed? It seems (to me) that since the rules state that reserve units have to be represented by a cloaking counter, I just assumed that they cannot HIP as nothing gives them the ability to do so......

Just MHO anyway......

Peace

Roger

So I HIP the counter, it's still a counter!

 

[rdw5150]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

So I HIP the counter, it's still a counter!

Greetings!

<SHRUG>

I think that is stretching it pretty thin:smoke::laugh: Doesn't CG6 say that the reserve counters have to set up on map? Since HIP counters are not technically on map, then its disallowed.

OK so that is stretching it more than a bit, but no more so than thinking you can HIP a cloaking counter, which is clearly (one again just MHO) not the intent nor spirit of the rule.

HIPing a reserve counter seems like the cheese on a quarter pounder with cheese:clown:

Peace

Roger

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Re: Various Suicide Creek questions and comments

1. I find it odd that at night (with an NVR of 2 or more, and no trip flares) a unit in H15 can't see H16, but can see H17. This is per G2.3. Note that using Starshells doesn't change this.

I believe that the Jungle Debris is not treated as Dense Jungle for NVR/Illumination purposes. If I remember correctly there should be an exception in the SC jungle-debris rule somewhere.

 

[Tater]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

I think that is stretching it pretty thin:smoke::laugh: Doesn't CG6 say that the reserve counters have to set up on map? Since HIP counters are not technically on map, then its disallowed.

OK so that is stretching it more than a bit, but no more so than thinking you can HIP a cloaking counter, which is clearly (one again just MHO) not the intent nor spirit of the rule.

HIPing a reserve counter seems like the cheese on a quarter pounder with cheese:clown:

You may be right...but in every other CG that uses reserve type rules, it is ALWAYS made explicit that reserves can not HIP. My guess is that it was explicitly noted for a reason (i.e., without such an explicit rule then HIP could be used).

 

[EagleIV]

Re: Various Suicide Creek questions and comments

I believe that the Jungle Debris is not treated as Dense Jungle for NVR/Illumination purposes. If I remember correctly there should be an exception in the SC jungle-debris rule somewhere.

You are right, I missed this at the end of SC2.1.

 

[rdw5150]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

You may be right...but in every other CG that uses reserve type rules, it is ALWAYS made explicit that reserves can not HIP. My guess is that it was explicitly noted for a reason (i.e., without such an explicit rule then HIP could be used).

Good point. I guess I am just used to seeing them not being allowed to HIP. Maybe because they are Japanese they are allowed to HIP. Could be its not cheese but good tactics. But my gut tells me no HIP. Also, once revealed I think they are placed on map unconcealed, so might not be the best thing to do.

Peace

Roger

 

[Darrell Andersen]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

Hmmm.....a puzzler. Let me review this a bit. I'll admit that this didn't come up earlier. My intent was to keep the SC CG rules as consistent with previous HASL CGs as possible and my inclination is to say that HIP for Reserves should be "specifically disallowed". Note that I am working a 12 hr shift with no access to other HASL rules. Can someone provide me with a rules reference in other campaigns that disallows HIP?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

Hm, when I look at my e-version of the SC rules, rule 4.4, CG6 says: "...Reserve Cloaking-counter HIP is NA..."


Here are the other HASL rules on this issue, that I have found:
RB, O11.6194b:
"...A Reserve RG must be set up on-map (HIP is NA) on the CG Day of purchase..."

KGP, CG7a:
"...Reserve Cloaking-counter HIP is NA..."

VotG, V12.6214b:
"...A Reserve RG must be set up on-map on the CG Day of purchase..."

Edson's Ride, CG7a:
"...Reserve Cloaking-counter HIP is NA..."

Primosole Bridge, CG6:
"...Reserve Cloaking-counter HIP is NA..."

I believe that the red part of the RB might might not have been present in the 1st edition of the RB rules and I remember a Q&A on this subject for RB - this might explain why it isn't present in the VotG rule, where several rules text from the 1st edition of RB seems to have been re-used, instead of the 2nd edition RB rules.

 

[Darrell Andersen]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

Klas- timely and helpful as always. Given that the SC CG is a ghoulish zombie clone of Pegasus Bridge perhaps that's why the HIP reserve thing never came up in PT. Now I'm curious as to where that section went.

In the meantime, no HIP for reserves and we'll discuss future q&a status for this in the future with Chas and the boys.

 

[apbills]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

So I HIP the counter, it's still a counter!

[Klas already got this one]

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

Klas- timely and helpful as always. Given that the SC CG is a ghoulish zombie clone of Pegasus Bridge perhaps that's why the HIP reserve thing never came up in PT. Now I'm curious as to where that section went.

In the meantime, no HIP for reserves and we'll discuss future q&a status for this in the future with Chas and the boys.

Well, as I noted in post #13 above, rule SC CG6 seems to already disallow HIP for Reserves.

 

[Aaron Cleavin]

Re: Suicide Creek CG question

Klas- timely and helpful as always. Given that the SC CG is a ghoulish zombie clone of Pegasus Bridge perhaps that's why the HIP reserve thing never came up in PT. Now I'm curious as to where that section went.

In the meantime, no HIP for reserves and we'll discuss future q&a status for this in the future with Chas and the boys.

Bl%%dy Cleavinator you do all this work developing and playtesting and then straight away he comes up with a sleaze no-one thought of in the PT that isn't explicitly illegal but is downright immoral and then makes it look like you have just goulish zombie ghost cloned your CG rules.

:devil: :skull: :argh: :curse:

Oops actually explicitly illegal so not sleaze at all