Suicide Creek Central....

Eagle4ty

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JR- Perfect, thank you! That is what I assumed so the confirmation is EXTREMELY helpful. Thanks for sticking with me during this CG. I am sure you will be glad when we are done! ;-)

Next up is a FB CG so hang on!
Keep 'em coming as I'm right behind you. Curtis "Buzzsaw" Brooks & I are starting this one here shortly. I've got Uncle Sam's Misguided Children so I'll really need every low down, dirty & underhanded trick you can come up with.:nod:
 

hayesncsu

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Keep 'em coming as I'm right behind you. Curtis "Buzzsaw" Brooks & I are starting this one here shortly. I've got Uncle Sam's Misguided Children so I'll really need every low down, dirty & underhanded trick you can come up with.:nod:
Great to hear! I am really enjoying it! As the USMC there are so many options. I think the Japanese player will have some counterattack options in our next game, CG date 4. The campaign appears to be leaning to USMC victory but with 18 PBs and needing to exit PLUS keep a Sherman safe, it's not an easy task.
 

hongkongwargamer

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Thanks folks .. my opponent and I are about to start the CG. Both of us has been studying this and a couple other Suicide Creek threads post by post.

Got a couple of rather elementary questions I need to clear up. I hope you gents don't mind.

  • Setup Area
    • A setup area has to be a Strategic Location and +2 hexes of non Strategic Locations next to it. However a setup area non strategic location needs to be enterable from one or more Strategic Location....
    • Question : how does that work? To be considered part of a setup area, does a non Strategic location need to be DIRECTLY enterable from one or more Strategic Location? Or can it be a hex that is accessible via another setup area non strategic location?
  • THE Creek
    • Since JD Stream and non-Ford Stream are NOT Enterable .. does that mean all Setup Area on the southside of the Creek are ALWAYS isolated until a Ford is built?
    • If not, how does a toe hold on the southside of the Creek avoid isolation?


Thanks much

Regards, Jack
 

jrv

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Thanks folks .. my opponent and I are about to start the CG. Both of us has been studying this and a couple other Suicide Creek threads post by post.

Got a couple of rather elementary questions I need to clear up. I hope you gents don't mind.

  • Setup Area
    • A setup area has to be a Strategic Location and +2 hexes of non Strategic Locations next to it. However a setup area non strategic location needs to be enterable from one or more Strategic Location....
    • Question : how does that work? To be considered part of a setup area, does a non Strategic location need to be DIRECTLY enterable from one or more Strategic Location? Or can it be a hex that is accessible via another setup area non strategic location?
  • THE Creek
    • Since JD Stream and non-Ford Stream are NOT Enterable .. does that mean all Setup Area on the southside of the Creek are ALWAYS isolated until a Ford is built?
    • If not, how does a toe hold on the southside of the Creek avoid isolation?
It is my belief that the "Enterable" mentioned in the definition of "Setup Area" in SC4.2 "for purposes of Setup Area determination" means that that is the only circumstance which they are considered unenterable. For all other purposes they are considered enterable, including for determining Isolation. If the Americans controlled all Strategic Locations on the map with no fords in the Stream, they would have two Setup Areas, one north of the Stream and one south because the stream-JD and non-ford stream hexes cannot be part of a setup area and so the two setup areas cannot join. Because the stream-JD and non-ford, non-strategic location stream hexes are not part of a setup area, they must either be Uncontrolled Territory or No-Man's Land; these are the only three map area types allowed¹. Those hexes in the stream that are within two hexes of both friendly and enemy strategic locations are no-man's land; those that aren't are uncontrolled territory. In the "Americans control the map" example, the American setup area south of the stream is not isolated because while the stream hexes are not considered enterable for setup area determination, they are considered enterable for isolation determination, and there are many ways for a route to be traced from south of the stream to north of the stream through stream uncontrolled territory.

¹There is actually a fourth type of map area. Some of the stream locations are strategic, e.g. all stream-jungle locations. These hexes are not part of any setup area (without a ford) by SC4.2, yet they do establish the normal strategic location "zone of control." They can cause no-man's land and/or friendly setup area in other hexes. The unresolved question is whether one can trace a route through one of them for the purposes of isolation. I would treat them as trace-able for the side that owns them, but this is only my guess.

JR
 

hayesncsu

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Jack,

Per your Creek questions this is how we are playing it now:

THE Creek
  • Since JD Stream and non-Ford Stream are NOT Enterable .. does that mean all Setup Area on the southside of the Creek are ALWAYS isolated until a Ford is built?
NO- the Creek is NOT ENTERABLE for "setup area determination only." We have been playing it as NON-ENTERABLE for steps 4.705-4.7054 only. This means that once you have "drawn the map" it becomes enterable again and units can shift across it. This means we have been playing that Setup Areas cannot exert influence (ie No-Mans Land) across the Creek since this is during Setup Area Determination. Here is our most recent map in case it helps at all. Black hashes= No Mans Land. Green is Japanese Setup, Blue is USMC Setup.



Note that there is a rule (will dig back and find it) that excludes newly purchased USMC RG from setting up on board south of the creek until the Ford is built. You can, however, shift already on board units across the creek and you can trace across the creek for purposes of isolation, etc.
  • If not, how does a toe hold on the southside of the Creek avoid isolation?
See above- you can trace across creek for purposes of avoiding isolation, shift, etc.
 
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hayesncsu

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GUNS and Setup?

USMC have two 75* guns onboard in the large setup area north of the Creek. The way I read the rules is they can either:

1. Setup w/i 3 hexes of where they ended the last game
2. Attempt to shift (not sure if this is actually available)

They can then set up HIP at beginning of next game. Thanks for your input!
 

hongkongwargamer

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Much obliged gents

You know, between all the tidbits here and in the other 2(3?) threads, there's probably a great player's guide in the making ... :highfive:
 

hayesncsu

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Much obliged gents

You know, between all the tidbits here and in the other 2(3?) threads, there's probably a great player's guide in the making ... :highfive:
Amen! I am looking forward to following it on your site.

We are REALLY enjoying it. It's my first CG (other than some LC ones) and it's been a blast!
 

jrv

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1. Setup w/i 3 hexes of where they ended the last game
2. Attempt to shift (not sure if this is actually available)
The middle of SC4.713: "A Gun cannot be Shifted." This makes the EXC in CG10 somewhat confusing. CG10 also seems to be confused about escape: "A Gun can never Escape" [SC4.706]. It looks as though the only option for a Gun is to set up in the same setup area within 3 hexes of where it ended its last scenario unless the last date was an idle day. It may set up HIP per A12.34, which I think means it may set up HIP in any hex that it can be set up in. Note that this means it may be placed into/removed from a pillbox between scenarios.

JR
 

Eagle4ty

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The middle of SC4.713: "A Gun cannot be Shifted." This makes the EXC in CG10 somewhat confusing. CG10 also seems to be confused about escape: "A Gun can never Escape" [SC4.706]. It looks as though the only option for a Gun is to set up in the same setup area within 3 hexes of where it ended its last scenario unless the last date was an idle day. It may set up HIP per A12.34, which I think means it may set up HIP in any hex that it can be set up in. Note that this means it may be placed into/removed from a pillbox between scenarios.

JR
Not too sure about that as it would violate a basic rule B30.45 without a specific notation to relieve one from that restriction. Having said that though, it would be a nice to have a clarification on the matter.
 

jrv

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Not too sure about that as it would violate a basic rule B30.45 without a specific notation to relieve one from that restriction. Having said that though, it would be a nice to have a clarification on the matter.
B30.45 "No 5/8" counter may enter or leave a pillbox during play." Between CG dates is not during play. RB & similar have rules that disallow Guns/Vehicles from leaving fortified buildings/pillboxes between games (see CG5 in RB, for instance). These are required because core rules only apply during a game. During inter-game periods the CG rules apply. SC does not have such a rule.

JR
 

hayesncsu

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Thanks JR.

And I've not needed it yet but as USMC or Japanese units in eligible terrain can set up in foxholes per SC1.4 correct? Thank you!
 

jrv

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And I've not needed it yet but as USMC or Japanese units in eligible terrain can set up in foxholes per SC1.4 correct?
Yes. The Americans will probably use these foxholes just for fighting, at least on the north side of the creek, but the Japanese may use them to establish new strategic locations behind the lines. They have to be careful about where and how many as the Americans may find the captured foxholes useful for fighting from too, especially if the Japanese bring down OBA.

JR
 

hayesncsu

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Mud- Bog - CRs

The way I read it has that a tracked vehicle moving on a corduroy road does not roll for bog.

The CR can only be placed in jungle or JD. Therefore Kunai in the Mud causes bog rolls. No exceptions for Dozers?
 

jrv

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Mud- Bog - CRs

The way I read it has that a tracked vehicle moving on a corduroy road does not roll for bog.
The CR can only be placed in jungle or JD. Therefore Kunai in the Mud causes bog rolls. No exceptions for Dozers?
CR is like trail break, and fully-tracked vehicles are immune to bog on a trail break. That also seems to be the intention for half-tracked vehicles. Kunai would be mud-bog eligible.

Dozers bog like other vehicles. They are low ground pressure and do not get the extra +2 bog DRM for dense jungle/bamboo.

For mud bog, you don't make multiple rolls. You make one mud bog DR for the entire MPh, with a bog dr saying the number of hexes in it affects [D8.23]. In addition you make non-mud bog DRs as they occur.

JR
 
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Jeff Sewall

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Question on infantry stacking limit on a Corduroy Road in Dense Jungle (and by extension Jungle Debris)

G2.2 "Infantry stacking limits are reduced to two in dense-jungle hexes that do not contain a road/building."

SC4.1 "CR are treated as Trail Breaks except as stated otherwise."

So, the latter rule would seem to imply that the stacking limit is still 2, but on the other hand, Corduroy Road does have the word "road" in it.
 
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hongkongwargamer

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Folks .. you must have mentioned this before .. so my apologies ..

STRATEGIC LOCATION .. "non-Abandoned Immobile vehicle with functioning MA", does that mean
#1: non-Abandoned AND non-Immobile?
#2: non-Abandoned AND Immobile?

thx
 
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