Suicide Creek Central....

[hayesncsu]

I am not sure why you say the creek is not "enterable": "Enerable: A hex/Location that the unit in question could enter (disregarding its occupation by a Fortification/enemy-unit) during a hypothetical MPh/APh" [SC4.2]. Since you entered the stream during the game I don't see how you can conclude it's not enterable.

Is hex A11 no-man's land or uncontrolled territory? If it is uncontrolled territory, you can trace a route of enterable, uncontrolled territory/no-man's land from the setup area to the north edge. The A12-A13 setup area would not be isolated in that case. If it is no-man's land then the setup area is isolated.

JR

JR- Thank you for your response. There is a CG Rule (at work Without Rule Book) that states a stream hex (note jungle-stream is different) is NON-ENTERABLE for Setup area determination and can split an otherwise intact setup area. The hard part about interpreting this is if it is NON-ENTERABLE for determining the hexes in the area ONLY or if it is considered NON-ENTERABLE for tracing the "path" to determine isolation. In our case the stream hex in question is UNCONTROLLED TERRITORY. Thank you!!!

 

[jrv]

JR- Thank you for your response. There is a CG Rule (at work Without Rule Book) that states a stream hex (note jungle-stream is different) is NON-ENTERABLE for Setup area determination and can split an otherwise intact setup area. The hard part about interpreting this is if it is NON-ENTERABLE for determining the hexes in the area ONLY or if it is considered NON-ENTERABLE for tracing the "path" to determine isolation. In our case the stream hex in question is UNCONTROLLED TERRITORY. Thank you!!!

It is non-enterable for determining setup areas only [SC4.705]. As the note says in the definition, it will split an otherwise single setup area into two. That is its only effect. Instead of having a single setup area you have two, one north and one south of the stream. As long as A11 is uncontrolled territory and the Americans control the north side of the stream, the two hexes south of the stream are not isolated. Because they are separate setup areas, units starting in one would have to shift to set up in the other. Also vehicles could not shift/setup across the stream unless you build a ford.

Note also that many RGs are covered by footnote r, which means they must enter as reinforcements. Some are not, but the ones you would probably like to be south of the river (e.g. rifle pltn) are, so to get more infantry across the stream you will have to shift.

JR

 

[hayesncsu]

JR that is so helpful thank you!!!

 

[rdw5150]

he is the man

 

[hayesncsu]

Pillbox and CC Question:

If attacker advances into the pillbox location in order to close combat a unit in the cellar is an ambush roll called for?

 

[jrv]

Pillbox and CC Question:

If attacker advances into the pillbox location in order to close combat a unit in the cellar is an ambush roll called for?

If one or more of the units is concealed [A11.4]. I don't believe that the outside hex being jungle/jungle debris/kunai is sufficient.

JR

 

[Eagle4ty]

If one or more of the units is concealed [A11.4]. I don't believe that the outside hex being jungle/jungle debris/kunai is sufficient.

JR

Hard to discern exactly what A11.1 is actually getting at with the [EXC: CC with units in a pillbox never occurs in the same Location although it does occur between units in the same hex; B30.6] (though not exactly applicable in this case) statement. However, on the face of it I agree that unless the unit in the cellar or the opposing unit in the PB was concealed, Ambush would not occur regardless of the terrain outside the PB Location in this instance.

 

[jrv]

Hard to discern exactly what A11.1 is actually getting at with the [EXC: CC with units in a pillbox never occurs in the same Location although it does occur between units in the same hex; B30.6] (though not exactly applicable in this case) statement. However, on the face of it I agree that unless the unit in the cellar or the opposing unit in the PB was concealed, Ambush would not occur regardless of the terrain outside the PB Location in this instance.

A11.1 says that CC can occur between units in a pillbox and outside despite the fact that they are not in the same location. I don't think it's directly applicable to how ambush works with pillboxes/pillbox cellars. Per B30.6, "CC is resolved in the normal manner between Infantry units in and outside of a pillbox." From this I believe that the unit outside has to Advance into the pillbox hex for there to be a possibility of ambush. Per A11.4 the unit has to advance in a woods/building, and that would apply for the outside unit (in a suitable hex, of course). As far as I can tell if a unit in a pillbox cellar advanced up into the pillbox to engage in CC with a unit outside, this would not trigger ambush (barring concealment) because the unit in the cellar did not advance into woods/building. And similarly a unit outside a pillbox would not be advancing into woods/building if it advanced INTO a pillbox so it could attack the cellar.

JR

 

[Eagle4ty]

Yup, from what I see in SC1.52, it seems as if one can conduct CC between contents of a PB Location & the PB Cellar Location in a similar fashion to that of CC between units outside a PB Location (but in the same hex) & those IN a PB Location. As stated I agree that since neither unit can be in a building/woods Location as a PB Cellar doesn't seem to meet any criteria of B23.XX or even RB type Cellars, thus barring concealment by either/both sides Ambush would not be possible even though the HEX may be a jungle hex.

 

[hayesncsu]

Guys thank you for the CC and PB answers.

I have a Setup Question- see below image. Per my reading of the definition of "Isolated," the USMC area in question is not isolated as it can trace a line of non-controlled hexes along the south board edge, then back north along the west board edge to get back to the North USMC entry area. Just wanted to confirm? Thank you!

 

[jrv]

From what I can see, W17 is an American objective hex. In that case U18 should be no-man's land and U19 should be Japanese setup area.

Assuming there is a strategic location controlled by the Americans in the W17, you are saying that there is a way back across the creek that goes along the southern board edge to the western board edge, and from there can trace a route that is not Japanese setup area to the northern board edge. If correct then the setup area around W17 is not isolated.

JR

 

[hayesncsu]

JR- You've got it, thank you! Sorry didnt have map handy at work and misdrew the line.

That was my interpretation also- thank you!

 

[hayesncsu]

Corduroy Roads? I have purchased CR for a the 4th campaign date. Do they set up prior to play? And are they placed on board or are they HIP until MP/MF used? I cannot seem to locate this in the rules. Thank you in advance!!!

 

[hayesncsu]

From what I can see, W17 is an American objective hex. In that case U18 should be no-man's land and U19 should be Japanese setup area.

Assuming there is a strategic location controlled by the Americans in the W17, you are saying that there is a way back across the creek that goes along the southern board edge to the western board edge, and from there can trace a route that is not Japanese setup area to the northern board edge. If correct then the setup area around W17 is not isolated.

JR

JR here is the map marked up FYI. Thank you for your help!

 

[jrv]

Corduroy Roads? I have purchased CR for a the 4th campaign date. Do they set up prior to play? And are they placed on board or are they HIP until MP/MF used? I cannot seem to locate this in the rules. Thank you in advance!!!

SC4.2 "CR can only be created prior to play by SSR, or by CG purchase."

This presumably means they are created during the pre-game sequence. The rule is not really specific about when during the pre-game sequence, e.g. could the Americans wait until after the Japanese had set up their defense before putting them down? Even if the Japanese set up second? The intention is probably that the counters become part of the OB for the side, and set up when the side sets up.

CR are not fortifications, so they are not eligible for HIP.

JR

 

[hayesncsu]

SC4.2 "CR can only be created prior to play by SSR, or by CG purchase."

This presumably means they are created during the pre-game sequence. The rule is not really specific about when during the pre-game sequence, e.g. could the Americans wait until after the Japanese had set up their defense before putting them down? Even if the Japanese set up second? The intention is probably that the counters become part of the OB for the side, and set up when the side sets up.

CR are not fortifications, so they are not eligible for HIP.

JR

JR- Perfect, thank you! That is what I assumed so the confirmation is EXTREMELY helpful. Thanks for sticking with me during this CG. I am sure you will be glad when we are done! ;-)

Next up is a FB CG so hang on!

 

[jrv]

Next up is a FB CG so hang on!

Facebook has a campaign game?

JR

 

[hayesncsu]

JR- Im not going to touch that! Fortunately I'm not on it!

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Facebook has a campaign game?

No, but the Fighter-Bomber does...

 

[jrv]

No, but the Fighter-Bomber does...

The long-lost Jabo Campaign Game has been found again?!?!??!!

JR