suggestions for introducing PTO to ASL players

[witchbottles]

JR,
I am bewildered by all of this. I thought SK was supposed to be a starting point. But, now you say that PTO SK is just a way to learn PTO in SK. I'm not sure now if I even ready for that. Is there a Starter Kit for SK? Are there plans for a programed way to gradually break into the concept of SK? I don't want get over my head. You know this game is so complicated and expensive, I can hardly believe anyone actually is able to play it. I guess we should have an programed instruction to PTO that does not require so much exertion on the part of the player. I gotta go now. I'm really tired.

 

[witchbottles]

Honestly, I have zero issues of a game player using ASLSK and never going beyond that. for the resonse I enumerated above:

1. its gets them playing ASL, and lets face it , nearly any full ASL player can enjoy a game of inf only in an ASLSK form. Frankly, a few of the scenarios are quite enjoyable as ASLSK inf only scens. S9 "Ambitious Assault" comes immediately to mind here.

2. It gets people exposed to the ASL genre without having the immediate hurdle of buying an ASLRBv2 at 80+ USD and a Beyond Valor v3 at 80+ USD, assuming they are not out of stock, again. For the cost of an ASLSK1 - at around 25.00 USD +/-. Quite a good way to buy into the game hobby as an introduction.

3. As Paul mentioned, an ASLSK sale still supports MMP, who in turn supports the entire spectrum of the hobby. a no lose situation for every ASLSK module sale, for all of the full ASL rules players.

Where I think the disconnect, if any, occurs, is that full ASl players need to grasp that ASLSK is a completely different game system within the hobby itself, much as Deluxe ASL, much as the old HoB firefights were, and much as an ASL Journal provided HASL is; each having its own set of rules sections that are used only within its own area, it's own modules required to be purchased if one wishes to play it. This means you need to de-program people's mind-hinge that ASL and ASLSK are one and the same being. they are not, never have been, and never will be. They are simply related products within a wide genre of a niche hobby game.

as with all things ,YMMV.

 

[Evan Sherry]

In return I find it somewhat bewildering that you/Sherry Enterprises/the Tampa ASL Group published a scenario pack that was "fully compatible with ASL and ASL Starter Kits 1-3" in October 2007 (Rally Point, Volume 2) with you listed as managing editor, scenario designer and playtester, but only now you are realizing that ASL SK is different from ASL. What does that mean regarding this publication? Is its claim of full compatibility not accurate? Say it ain't so, Joe.

JR

You forgot Rally Point Volume #6: Starter Kit Special Study II. Oh yeah, we are also working on Rally Point Volume #18: ASL Starter Kit Special Study III that features all new SK PTO scenarios that are fully compatible with full ASL. I guess what it really means is that we have no idea what the heck we are doing.

 

[Eagle4ty]

You forgot Rally Point Volume #6: Starter Kit Special Study II. Oh yeah, we are also working on Rally Point Volume #18: ASL Starter Kit Special Study III that features all new SK PTO scenarios that are fully compatible with full ASL. I guess what it really means is that we have no idea what the heck we are doing.

I play a lot of scenarios that way!

 

[witchbottles]

JR,
I am bewildered by all of this. I thought SK was supposed to be a starting point. But, now you say that PTO SK is just a way to learn PTO in SK. I'm not sure now if I am even ready for that. Is there a Starter Kit for SK? Are there plans for a programed way to gradually break into the concept of SK? I don't want get in over my head. You know this game is so complicated and expensive, I can hardly believe anyone actually is able to play it. I guess we should have an programed instruction to PTO that does not require so much exertion on the part of the player. I gotta go now. I'm really tired.

In return I find it somewhat bewildering that you/Sherry Enterprises/the Tampa ASL Group published a scenario pack that was "fully compatible with ASL and ASL Starter Kits 1-3" in October 2007 (Rally Point, Volume 2) with you listed as managing editor, scenario designer and playtester, but only now you are realizing that ASL SK is different from ASL. What does that mean regarding this publication? Is its claim of full compatibility not accurate? Say it ain't so, Joe.

JR

Sar-chasm (noun): The gulf between sarcastic comments, and the audience that did not get them.

 

[Perry]

An introduction to PTO in Starter Kit. An ASL player has to "unlearn" a boatload of rules from standard ASL to play starter kit. It could be done but if their goal is to learn PTO in ASL proper and the players are not already familiar with SK, it would add another layer of complexity to their chore. And then once they learned PTO in SK, they would then have to learn the differences the other way.

My suggestion for a "stepped" introduction would be to play Japanese without PTO first to get a feel for how the Japanese Nationality works, then move on to infantry-only PTO, then add vehicles. My suggestion for the best way to learn PTO is to play Bloody Red Beach over and over again.

And really, what is PTO without a sniper? It's nearly Chutes and Ladders.

JR

I can’t really disagree with JR here regarding how an experienced ASL player unfamiliar with Starter Kit should proceed in learning PTO.

On the other hand, a rank novice or someone familiar with Starter Kit could benefit from SK#4, IMO.

 

[Tuomo]

Give them the Allied defender and briefly explain the vagaries of PTO terrain. Then Banzai the hell out of them. BAM, THERE'S YOUR PTO INTRODUCTION.

 

[wrongway149]

I think "Jungle Fighters", in an ironic twist, involves no jungle or PTO terrain at all, and is in fact a fighting withdrawal in a city, with Japanese vs. British. Good scenario too.

Exactly the one I was thinking of. Excellent for illustrating the pros and cons of Japanese step reduction without all the terrain changes. .

 

[wrongway149]

I'd recommend Nunshigum from Schwerpunkt 11,

My favorite 'small' PTO scenario (have won as each side in tournament play- with both games coming down to last turn CC)

 

[Evan Sherry]

My favorite 'small' PTO scenario (have won as each side in tournament play- with both games coming down to last turn CC)

Nunshigum...pure genius!

 

[Ric of The LBC]

Honestly, I have zero issues of a game player using ASLSK and never going beyond that. for the resonse I enumerated above:

1. its gets them playing ASL, and lets face it , nearly any full ASL player can enjoy a game of inf only in an ASLSK form. Frankly, a few of the scenarios are quite enjoyable as ASLSK inf only scens. S9 "Ambitious Assault" comes immediately to mind here.

2. It gets people exposed to the ASL genre without having the immediate hurdle of buying an ASLRBv2 at 80+ USD and a Beyond Valor v3 at 80+ USD, assuming they are not out of stock, again. For the cost of an ASLSK1 - at around 25.00 USD +/-. Quite a good way to buy into the game hobby as an introduction.

3. As Paul mentioned, an ASLSK sale still supports MMP, who in turn supports the entire spectrum of the hobby. a no lose situation for every ASLSK module sale, for all of the full ASL rules players.

Where I think the disconnect, if any, occurs, is that full ASl players need to grasp that ASLSK is a completely different game system within the hobby itself, much as Deluxe ASL, much as the old HoB firefights were, and much as an ASL Journal provided HASL is; each having its own set of rules sections that are used only within its own area, it's own modules required to be purchased if one wishes to play it. This means you need to de-program people's mind-hinge that ASL and ASLSK are one and the same being. they are not, never have been, and never will be. They are simply related products within a wide genre of a niche hobby game.

as with all things ,YMMV.

ASLSK is to ASL as Americans are to the British.

Common people separated by a common language.

 

[witchbottles]

ASLSK is to ASL as Americans are to the British.

Common people separated by a common language.

trust me, there is a huge difference in a draught and a draft.

and any American has never experienced true British culture shock until they meet an RSM on a drill field for the first time

 

[MrP]

+1 for Jungle Fighters as a PTO intro. Gets you used to a little bit of PTO terrain and the Japanese characteristics...plenty of opportunity to banzai

 

[Mike205]

I learned PTO by playing the Nphum Ga scenarios in ASL Annual 97, in particular A118- The Water Hole. The only downside is that its virtually impossible to get your hands on a copy. MMP really, really, really needs to reprint this.

Any of the Schwerpunkt/Rally Point Gurkha scenarios would be a good choice:

SP125- Nunshigum
SP127- Bleed Gurkha Bleed!
SP 95- Burn Gurkha Burn
RPT73- Sausage Hill

The fur is guaranteed to fly in any scenario that pits IJA against The Little Men and they're a

RPT79- Blooded! Is also good- American paras against IJA and is a manageable way to learn PTO terrain.

I also recommend:

ASL 9- Cibik's Ridge

This one is a classic PTO scenario.

AP125- Ambush on South Knob would also be a good one, if you're ready to introduce some fortifications.

If you like PTO, once you've got your jungle legs under you, definitely run out and find a copy of ASL Journal 9 for the Suicide Creek scenarios/campaign.

 

[von Marwitz]

This was my first PTO scenario and neither of us thought it was all that exciting. Perhaps it just couldn't live up to all the hype. Or maybe it was my Chinese just melting away with not much of a fight.

I had a blast playing Totsugeki as the Japanese. Quite literally. My Japanese were blasted by the guns but in the end just made it.

von Marwitz

 

[von Marwitz]

I was forced last year to Playtest a scenario a couple of times called Final Crisis at Blackpool for a tournament in Blackpool over here. Created by Joe Leoce for Critical Hit.

I think I enjoyed that scenario more than any other PTO scenario I've ever played.

Fairly basic to rule, but tactically very deep. Brits v Japanese. Japs yomping up some mountainside against second line Indian troops until the British Gurkhas turn up to shore up the defence. Excellent scenario. Can't recommend it enough.

I can only second that!

Personally, I found that this scenario captures the atmosphere of miserable wet footslogging in adverse conditions up unforgiving jungle hills like no other. Created many pictures in my mind. Without doubt, it ranks among the finest PTO scenarios I ever played.

There is a VASL setup for download here:

http://vasl.info/setups/CH/CH-97%20Final%20Crisis%20at%20Blackpool.vsav

More on the scenario here with two AARs:

ASL Scenario Archive

www.aslscenarioarchive.com

von Marwitz