Streets of Stalingrad 4th Edition in Production.

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Russ Schulke

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If possible, can this thread be moved to the “General Boardgame Chat” section.
 

Pitman

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NATO symbols, lol, why not Warsaw PACT symbols then. You are willing to learn 30-40+ pages of rules for a new game, but not one page of symbols. You expect the map to be correct (roads, rail lines, cities, villages, rivers, names, terrain …), you expect the OOB to be correct (Army, Corps, Divisions, Brigades, Regiments and Battalions), why would you want NATO (Post WWII) symbols in the first place?

Russ
NATO symbols date back to the 1800s, so don't be silly. As to why I would want them. For the very simple reason that they are the STANDARD SYMBOLOGY USED BY WARGAMES FOR THE PAST 50 YEARS.
 

Pitman

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Russ raises a very good point about the unit symbology, it is a WW2 Ost front game, the logical choice IMHO is to use 1942 period German and Russian unit map markings, I for one would look on modern day NATO map markings as a sale out.
No, the LOGICAL CHOICE is to use the STANDARD UNIT SYMBOLS that ALMOST ALL SUCH WARGAMES USE, and not make players have to learn alternative systems.
 

Pitman

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There has been such a huge advancement in counter art that I wouldn't even touch a game still using military symbols from the "glory days" of wargaming. How is this a "major advancement"?
That's rich. In other words, you wouldn't touch the majority of wargames published today.
 

Pitman

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I have read and heard that a 4th Edition of this great game (OOP for a long time) is now in Production, what if anything would we ASL lunatics like to see new (if anything), and how many would buy this new version?

Cheers

Perry
You know it's not in production, right?
 

Proff3RTR

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No, the LOGICAL CHOICE is to use the STANDARD UNIT SYMBOLS that ALMOST ALL SUCH WARGAMES USE, and not make players have to learn alternative systems.
No, the logical choice is to put what the game designer wants, or as in this case proper ww2 era side orientated unit symbols. it is not hard to grasp, or understand.
 

Gunner Scott

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So, since you are such an expert wargamer and seem to know what we think as well as how you like to think for us, when are we going to see you publish your own wargame? Instead of being apart of the problem, become apart of the solution and publish your own wargame. I'm also betting that if this was an MMP game, you would say not a thing about it.

Scott

No, the LOGICAL CHOICE is to use the STANDARD UNIT SYMBOLS that ALMOST ALL SUCH WARGAMES USE, and not make players have to learn alternative systems.
 

Pitman

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No, the logical choice is to put what the game designer wants, or as in this case proper ww2 era side orientated unit symbols. it is not hard to grasp, or understand.
So if MMP decided to print an Advanced Squad Leader module using invisible ink, you'd be cool with that, because that's what they want? I'm assuming not. The field of wargaming is littered with designers and publishers who made poor choices somewhere along the way (and if you don't believe me, get OSG's Battle of the Bulge game).

There is a reason why wargames have certain graphic design conventions, as does every field that is involved with design, and that is so that people do not always have to learn every single thing from the ground up.
 

Pitman

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So, since you are such an expert wargamer and seem to know what we think as well as how you like to think for us, when are we going to see you publish your own wargame? Instead of being apart of the problem, become apart of the solution and publish your own wargame. I'm also betting that if this was an MMP game, you would say not a thing about it.

Scott
Oh, my little asexual troll, I criticize MMP-related graphic design all the time. Just this week I was involved with criticizing on Consimworld the Dean Essig style of graphic design that has been in used in many of their games since the 1980s.
 

Gunner Scott

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Sorry herr propaganda minister, I don't go to consim world much, its for elitist wargamers.

Russ, Herr Pitmann has some mental problems, just ignore him and work on your game as you like.

Scott

Oh, my little asexual troll, I criticize MMP-related graphic design all the time. Just this week I was involved with criticizing on Consimworld the Dean Essig style of graphic design that has been in used in many of their games since the 1980s.
 

Russ Schulke

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A game being in production means that its parts are being printed. Are you saying that?
pro·duc·tion prəˈdəkSH(ə)n/ noun

1. The action of making or manufacturing from components or raw materials, or the process of being so manufactured.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Production_(economics) Wikipedia

Production is a process of combining various material inputs and immaterial inputs (plans, know-how) in order to make something for consumption (the output). It is the act of creating output, a good or service which has value and contributes to the utility of individuals.
 
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xenovin

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That's rich. In other words, you wouldn't touch the majority of wargames published today.
Correct. Tired old graphics mean tire old game mechanics so move on. Mark, feel free to keep re-upping your S&T subscriptions so you feel warm and fuzzy inside.
 

Pitman

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Correct. Tired old graphics mean tire old game mechanics so move on. Mark, feel free to keep re-upping your S&T subscriptions so you feel warm and fuzzy inside.
That is one hell of a laugh. The notion that using NATO symbols somehow translates to "tired old game mechanics" is ludicrous and merely shows that you have no idea what you are even talking about.

It is also particularly amusing since you are a player of a game that 1) as a tactical game follows the convention of not using NATO symbols, yet 2) has game mechanics that are 40 years old.
 

xenovin

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That is one hell of a laugh. The notion that using NATO symbols somehow translates to "tired old game mechanics" is ludicrous and merely shows that you have no idea what you are even talking about.

It is also particularly amusing since you are a player of a game that 1) as a tactical game follows the convention of not using NATO symbols, yet 2) has game mechanics that are 40 years old.
Nice try switching this back to ASL to support your own ideas but this discussion is about NEW GAMES published in 2016. If a game company today cannot take a few minutes to generate new counter art and decides to give you (tired old) NATO symbols, how innovative do you think they were with the game mechanics? again, played one S&T game, played them all. If ASL 3.0 was published in 2016 using 1977 graphics that would be a joke and would let you know that you don't need to pick it up as it is no better than the original. Just ask your buddy ZenRiver. And since you bring it up, ASL is like Sophia Loren - elegant and still looks good for her age - but another face lift might attract a younger crowd. TPPs are adding new things all the time to ASL - to your chagrin I might add. Embrace change, forget your wargame Stalinist myopia, and feel the Bern :D
 
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