Streams of Death

Sully

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Playing Ozerekya Breakout and the weather turned to falling snow, which makes the streams Frigid. Being a dumba$$ I wasn't aware of the very severe penalty for entering a frigid stream: ELR and eventually CR.

There is no provision for being IN the stream vs. in crest status. So I can't use the streams for defense.

To add to the fun OzB has stream-woods hexes, which are mandatory rout locations. So routing units can be literally vaporized by the cold water.

Seems unreasonably harsh to me.

P.S. what is the trick to play the Romanians? We're on the third campaign date and the Russians have accumulated 40+ squads, half of them elite, plus 9 light tanks plus like 8 HMG including a handful of 50 cal. 3-4-7s melt like butter in the Texas sun.
 

Vinnie

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I would have thought the stream would be frozen rather than frigid. Is there ground snow present?
 

Brian W

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3.713 EC: When Falling Snow is possible, EC are "Moist" (unless Ground/Deep Snow are also present) and all streams are considered frigid.
I wonder when falling snow is possible? Ground snow freezes the water completely, so it has to be falling snow without ground/deep snow.
 

Robin Reeve

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Snow tends to fall before it is on the ground... :cool:
And if the ground isn't cold enough, snow won't immediately persist.
 

benj

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P.S. what is the trick to play the Romanians? We're on the third campaign date and the Russians have accumulated 40+ squads, half of them elite, plus 9 light tanks plus like 8 HMG including a handful of 50 cal. 3-4-7s melt like butter in the Texas sun.
When I played it, twice, the Russians did not even have a chance and they were ground down by OBA, mortar fire and a string of mines in the western woods covered by point-blank fire and flame throwers. I imagine the trick for the Romanians is to inflict sever losses to the Russians on the first day and fall back quickly thereafter.

Regarding the frigid streams, yes, they are a pain.
 

volgaG68

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P.S. what is the trick to play the Romanians?
Yep, I did the same as Benj, mines and OBA chewed the Reds up early while the infantry took Down 2's whenever they could while slowly falling back.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Playing Ozerekya Breakout and the weather turned to falling snow, which makes the streams Frigid. Being a dumba$$ I wasn't aware of the very severe penalty for entering a frigid stream: ELR and eventually CR.
Normally it is just Replacement (ELR) or Disruption/break (if Green/Conscript/lowest-class), IIRC.
 

Robin Reeve

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Replacement implies breaking.

B20.7 ... If Infantry/Cavalry units enter a frigid Water Obstacle without a bridge they are Replaced by the next lower Class unit or Disrupted as per A19.12-13 or Casualty Reduced if incapable of both Replacement and Disruption (e.g., heroic or unarmed units).
A19.13 REPLACEMENT: An unbroken Personnel unit which fails a MC by an amount > its ELR is immediately Replaced by a broken Personnel unit of lesser quality but the same size
 
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benj

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No, A19.13 just tells that you are broken if you fail a MC and then deals with replacement.
 

Robin Reeve

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No, A19.13 just tells that you are broken if you fail a MC and then deals with replacement.
I am much less sure that you are.
All is how you understand "as per A19.12-13". A19.12-13 speaks of breaking or even being disrupted as part of the Replacement ("Replaced by a broken Personnel unit of lesser quality but the same size", not as a two time process.
I don't think that you can only choose the ELR substitution, without including the broken status.
 
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benj

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I read it more "a unit is replaced as if it has failed its ELR". Anyway, under ammunition shortage units are Replaced without being broken (see A19.131, which is a subsection of the same A19.3).
 

Sully

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When I played it, twice, the Russians did not even have a chance and they were ground down by OBA, mortar fire and a string of mines in the western woods covered by point-blank fire and flame throwers. I imagine the trick for the Romanians is to inflict sever losses to the Russians on the first day and fall back quickly thereafter.
That worked for the first CD. I got shredded in the second 'cause I tried to hang on to the woods line in the center and made some bad purchases (e.g. AT guns instead of OBA).
 

Robin Reeve

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I read it more "a unit is replaced as if it has failed its ELR". Anyway, under ammunition shortage units are Replaced without being broken (see A19.131, which is a subsection of the same A19.3).
You have a point here.
I always found the reference of Frigid streams to A19 ambiguous.
The wording about Unit Replacement should clearly separate the unit substitution with a lower quality one and its breaking - especially as A19.12-13 is referred to by other rules.
 
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Robin Reeve

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