Vinnie
See Dummies in the index
Consider, would you be asking this question about a woods road hex?
Depends. Does it help me or my opponent?Consider, would you be asking this question about a woods road hex?
Since the interpretation of a Gully-Woods hex has been determined to be a terrain type (NOTE: the hyphen), that same principal exists for a Woods-Road hex. The answer is No bypass being allowed of a Woods-Road hex as the unit may not bypass the road. However, the answer provided in the Q&A (nor the rule for that matter) does not say the woods in a Gully-Woods hex cannot be bypassed, but simply the combined terrain feature of a Gully-Woods cannot be bypassed (as alluded to by the response from Tuomo and Bob B by bypassing the woods using only the OG cost). In other words, the cost of entering the Gully would still have to be paid to allow bypass of the Woods obstacle. I'm not saying that is the current interpretation of the Q&A or the rule as current accepted practice seems to disallow bypass of a gully-woods or woods-road terrain feature at all, but it could certainly be interpreted as AP Bills has indicated.Consider, would you be asking this question about a woods road hex?
Thanks. I see now why I did not have that Q&A - I don't think I incorporated the First Edition Q&A, assuming the rules had either been corrected or discarded within the 2nd edition based on those Q&A.The Q&A is in the "Total" file...
Bypassing the woods would mean you'd be entering the gully, and the woods is in between the gully and the edge....So, one would have to move through the woods since they are considered IN the gully...which totally is more "displacement" confusion that bypassing by "floating" a Hill woods over lower crest lines.I could not say why it was ruled that way.
Perhaps it was easier than to allow bypass along non-Depression hexsides? Which I think could have been the ruling. I don’t think there would be any rules issues with that.
A road isn't really terrain...its a feature of the hex.Consider, would you be asking this question about a woods road hex?
Given "terrain feature" is not actually defined in the index or the body of the rules, and given "Road" is listed as "Terrain" in the rules, and given it is also apparently a feature of the hex, I think that would make it a "terrain feature". That being said, I am pretty sure I'm not going to stop someone from bypassing around the woods in a woods-road hex.A road isn't really terrain...its a feature of the hex.
I still believe your initial take was correct, as is the Q&A and the notation in the rule. Let's take a closer look at the Q&A and the rule:Given "terrain feature" is not actually defined in the index or the body of the rules, and given "Road" is listed as "Terrain" in the rules, and given it is also apparently a feature of the hex, I think that would make it a "terrain feature". That being said, I am pretty sure I'm not going to stop someone from bypassing around the woods in a woods-road hex.
It is a shame that when they updated A4.3 to address the Q&A they did not do a better job. I don't have the 1st edition anymore, so I am not sure the exact changes, however, apparently the inclusion of "(including gully-woods)" in the sentence was felt to be enough to not only change the meaning of "to skirt the edges of any other terrain feature" to mean "if any other terrain is in the hex".
I will say that this interpretation does seem to align with the last statement of B.1 "In some cases a hex will contain more than one terrain type with neither dominant over the other, in which case the terrain effects of both types are cumulative." in that in order to bypass a hex the only terrain types that may be in the hex are buildings and woods since no other terrain types allow it, which when added together would effectively mean "AND" from a logic perspective. In other words, if one terrain type does not allow it, it can't be done in a combination hex.
In the end it doesn't matter as long as everyone understands it. It still would be nice to clarify this a bit better.
I just do what I want, loudly.FWIW, how have you guys played for so long not understanding what is bypass-able? Just been playing on old maps or what?
That's certainly how it's interpreted.
Terrain IS defined, it's pretty much all of Chap B.Given "terrain feature" is not actually defined in the index or the body of the rules, and given "Road" is listed as "Terrain" in the rules, and given it is also apparently a feature of the hex, I think that would make it a "terrain feature". That being said, I am pretty sure I'm not going to stop someone from bypassing around the woods in a woods-road hex.
A road isn't really terrain...its a feature of the hex.
Are you now onboard with a road-woods hex is a "terrain feature"? I have no idea how you got to bypassing the woods on the road, never even proposed that, was never part of the conversation until your post.Terrain IS defined, it's pretty much all of Chap B.
You don't bypass the woods by being on the road. you bypass by being in the other terrain, it could be Brush.
Roads add a "pseudo" location in the hex. And the Bypass rules use hexsides, the only hexside roads would be Narrow streets which in turn are defined as OG instead of the building.
So bypassing woods to move on the road isn't even in the conversation unless its a narrow road and that is clearly defined in the rules.
It has its own rule B3 (& attendant B4-7) so certainly is terrain as Chapter B is noted as TERRAIN. It is Gully-Woods or Woods-Road that possibly be considered "quai-terrain. To be in a Woods-road hex one must either be on the road (i.e. using the road) or in the woods as a road cannot be bypassed (not used yes, but bypass isn't allowed).A road isn't really terrain...its a feature of the hex.
Per B13.41 "... [EXC: a vehice(s) in a woods-road hex is always considered on the road unless beneath a partial Trail Break counter]."I'm pretty sure bypass is allowed in a woods-road hex. B13.1, second sentence, makes
it clear to me that a hex such as 19X1 (a woods-road hex) is a woods hex. Per B.1, usually
the centre dot dictates the (dominant) terrain type. Perhaps the second sentence of
B13.1 is there to make things explicit in the case of woods-road hexes.
indy
A10.61, oft overlooked...Note that a unit in a Trench also receives the Rally Bonus
Sure why wouldn't it be...but you can't bypass the interior on the road. Just the hexsides.I'm pretty sure bypass is allowed in a woods-road hex. B13.1, second sentence, makes
it clear to me that a hex such as 19X1 (a woods-road hex) is a woods hex. Per B.1, usually
the centre dot dictates the (dominant) terrain type. Perhaps the second sentence of
B13.1 is there to make things explicit in the case of woods-road hexes.
indy
However, by rule you are bypassing the road, another terrain feature delineated by a separate rule in Chapter B.Sure why wouldn't it be...but you can't bypass the interior on the road. Just the hexsides.