Strategic considerations for placing rubble..

ASL Maineiac

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Playing First Timers from Hatten. I'm the Germans and get to place rubble as part of my setup. I'm trying to grasp the best way to use them to improve my defense. There are two considerations I'm aware of, but I'm sure there are more and hoping people can chime in with how they'd think about this opportunity. One consideration is that Rubble will create inherent obstacles, which will block LOS along a hex side. That could come in handy if I see some nice LOS the attackers may have (though realize it's a two-way street). The other consideration is that it will prevent VBM and any chance for the sleaze freeze. So perhaps rubbling my Alamo is a good idea? What am I missing? What are the strategic considerations you'd use if you were able to select a few buildings to rubble as part of your defense?
 

Justiciar

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Also I forget in Hatten if rubble is or is not rout destination/bonus terrain...if not destination terrain then you use it to possibly influence rout direction of the enemy.
 

ASL Maineiac

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Also I forget in Hatten if rubble is or is not rout destination/bonus terrain...if not destination terrain then you use it to possibly influence rout direction of the enemy.
Rubble is rout and rally terrain in Hatten
 

Jacometti

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Defense against VBM sleezing in some scenarios, definitely. A bit of messing with LOS.....and slowing down the enemy by 1 MF.....generally the importance is minimal - except for some scenarios which are super Sleeze worthy....
 

xenovin

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Divert vehicles away from roads into kill zones, rubble stairwell locations in VC buildings or upper building hexes favorable to enemy attack on your position, manhole locations, close a flank to vehicles, in general use to annoy or frustrate an attack on your position.
 

jrv

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Can you move/ move back to it after skulking without CX'ing yourself or losing Concealment?
Into rubble? Typically yes. It's three MF, so you can assault move or advance without difficult terrain unless carrying four or more PP. What you can't do is move quickly.

JR
 

hongkongwargamer

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Into rubble? Typically yes. It's three MF, so you can assault move or advance without difficult terrain unless carrying four or more PP. What you can't do is move quickly.

JR
Thanks but not what I meant.

I mean in terms of placing Rubble (going to the topic here).

Are you placing it in a place and in a way that you can go in or move back into without CX'ing yourself or losing Concealment?
 

von Marwitz

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Blocking LOS is the big one. You can create rally central in the selected Alamo so you can shed DM.
Blocking LOS is a big one, agreed. Sometimes, though, you can also use Rubble to "create" LOS by eliminating building levels and thus opening a view to a potential enemy approach route that would otherwise be covered.

Besides that, as mentioned by others:
Rubble is able to funnel movement. Especially so for vehicles and in a lesser extent also for infantry. As one can't bypass Rubble, you can generate two extra MF that the enemy has to spend if placed in the right spot. This might force him to CX with all that entails where he rather wouldn't or might buy you an extra half turn of time under favorable circumstances.

von Marwitz
 

Tuomo

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Specific to First Timers, L25 and L26 are behind Hedges, and since Rubble does not destroy Hedges, it costs 4MF to advance over the hedge into those hexes, which creates CX, etc. This actually hurt me in my playing of this one; although one of my initial American pushes was right at this area, I was completely stymied. Never did take those hexes.

FWIW, if I had been the German, I had plans to set up a HS or two in Foxhole behind the hedges around N25. With the US not setting up adjacent, they'd have no LOS to those entrenched units behind foxholes, but would run into them as soon as they tried to advance through that area. With a short scenario like that, I figured those HS pickets would buy some very valuable time. Would have been interesting to see how that worked out. As it was, Dean's Germans simply sat in L25/26 and blasted whatever Americans they saw. Yeah, I suppose that'd work too.
 

jfardette

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Turn a multi location building into a single location. No need to worry about those pesky HIP neighbors upstairs. No silly routing upstairs when otherwise surrounded.
 

Carln0130

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Not so much in Hatten with its mostly ground level locations, but it not only blocks ground level LOS, but frees up higher to lower LOS. Somewhat of a consideration in Hatten and a major one for other scenarios and HASL's.
 

stuh42asl

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In Ortona the Germans used rubble to block and force Canadian tanks into kill zones, also is a good place to put a hidden HMG crew and a 9-2 to get those fire lanes going. Also forces troops to go through difficult terrain.
 
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Rubble buildings that are aesthetically displeasing, such as those in Brutalist style. It may not help you win the scenario, but you will afterward be fondly remembered by the community for your "gift."

JR
I totally agree, the German's needed to learn that at the start of the war on Russia , Opera Houses, Palaces and pretty parks should have been off limits..
 
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