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Michael Dorosh

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Not that it alters your point but this is said enough where from time to time I have to remind (or be reminded if someone has a quote I am forgetting) that the quote your mention said something like "it could be done in 2009 but we want to take some time off during the holidays". You may be confusing it with his quote that it would definitely be out in 2010. Both, obviously, were wrong.
If so, I stand corrected - but maintain his message would be stronger with more of a confident message rather than "we told you so's" which turn out to be "umm...actually, you never did." The alternate - just staying quiet - does not harm the product either.

Can we assume you've found PzC stultifying? Or are you wrestling with the controls - or perhaps just not interested enough to even open it yet? Or some/none/all of the above?

I don't have any strong opinions one way or another. I think it is one of those games I want to like very badly but do not want to put the time into learning to play well. Which puts it into good company with me; for example, chess.
 

dalem

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Not that it alters your point but this is said enough where from time to time I have to remind (or be reminded if someone has a quote I am forgetting) that the quote your mention said something like "it could be done in 2009 but we want to take some time off during the holidays". You may be confusing it with his quote that it would definitely be out in 2010. Both, obviously, were wrong.
Wildly, ridiculously, and embarrassingly wrong.

Hence the "just be quiet and stop talking about releasing the game and just release it" reactions from some.

-dale
 

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If so, I stand corrected - but maintain his message would be stronger with more of a confident message rather than "we told you so's" which turn out to be "umm...actually, you never did." The alternate - just staying quiet - does not harm the product either.
The post I referred to actually explained why it wouldn't be 2009 and I don't recall a different one that ever said it would be out in 2009. But as I said and you point out, that has nothing to do with your point.


Can we assume you've found PzC stultifying? Or are you wrestling with the controls - or perhaps just not interested enough to even open it yet? Or some/none/all of the above?

I don't have any strong opinions one way or another. I think it is one of those games I want to like very badly but do not want to put the time into learning to play well. Which puts it into good company with me; for example, chess.
Last night when I downloaded the demo I played it for all of 5 minutes and bailed because, as CMx1 is to me now, I couldn't bare to look at the graphics. Too distracting for me. Today, in the light of day, I went back and played with it more. J2D was nice enough to answer some questions for me that helped me understand what I was doing better. I got a pretty good feel of how the basics work and a quick understanding that I didn't scratch the surface of what the game may have to offer. The combination of Mothers Day and other game playingtime obligations prevented me from playing for more than an hour or so. That was enough time to make me curious enough to revisit it when I get some free time and confirm that I will be buying the game.

I've been teasing MR and J2D in what I hope has been a mutually fun way and always assumed I would support their efforts.
 

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Wildly, ridiculously, and embarrassingly wrong.



-dale

Link please. And for what it's worth I did say this "be reminded if someone has a quote I am forgetting". But if you have a link where Steve said the game would defintiely be released in 2009 I'd be curious to see it.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Steve's prediction on the price of CMBN was also off/low by a full 33.333%. See his post #1 here:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=84156
The more time you invest, the more your labour is worth. Bit of circular logic there, but there it is...:) That was also before the recession...

Not justifyin', just sayin'. Wasn't really a hard prediction, just a surmise on Steve's part.

($45 most likely)
For what it is worth, though, I do recall vaguely what dalem is referring to but would be interested in a link as I'm not convinced I have it 100% clear.
 

dalem

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Link please. And for what it's worth I did say this "be reminded if someone has a quote I am forgetting". But if you have a link where Steve said the game would defintiely be released in 2009 I'd be curious to see it.
Link? I'm just tailing off of your last statement that Steve's previous date announcements were wrong. They weer more than just "wrong" - they were eedlessly and embarrassingly so.

-dale
 

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Steve of Bf 23 Dec 2008

As stated before, as usual we aren't making any release announcements until we're pretty close to being done. All I can say about the Normandy release is that most of the models are already done, much of the recent programming was on our Normandy priority list, and we've largely outsourced the creation of the last two CM:SF Modules. In short, as the Plan I outlined describes, we are finally able to work on more than one thing at a time. Therefore, expect the Normandy game sooner rather than later. How soon? Well, definitely not within a couple of months and certainly well before the end of 2009.

Steve
30 Sep 2008

We have no firm release date, but it definitely will be in 2009.
18 Sep 2009


As for release we've decided we're not going to rush things to get it out by Christmas as originally planned. We would rather enjoy the Holidays Our goal, however, is to have it mostly done before taking some time off at the end of the year. That is still our plan and we're still thinking it is possible. We'll know much better in a month.

Steve
Just a quick search on the BF forum found these quotes. I think it was pretty clear at the time CMBN was going to be 2009. The use of the word definitely in quite a few posts kind of bears this out.
 

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Yep. Which is why the "definitely NOT 2011" crap from him was so sad. To miss a date by 1.5 YEARS for your flagship product and still keep announcing and missing new dates takes a particular kind of gumption rarely seen.

-dale
 

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Link please. And for what it's worth I did say this "be reminded if someone has a quote I am forgetting". But if you have a link where Steve said the game would defintiely be released in 2009 I'd be curious to see it.
I've posted it before, and I'll post it again:

31st March 2009

Also, 2010 is not a release timeframe for CM: Normandy. And before you wisearses say 2011 , I'll say it is definitely going to happen in 2009. Probably a few months later than we wanted, but then again everything is always later than we want. But that's normal since we're a software developer after all.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?p=1130376&#post1130376
 

Elvis

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Steve of Bf 23 Dec 2008



30 Sep 2008



18 Sep 2009




Just a quick search on the BF forum found these quotes. I think it was pretty clear at the time CMBN was going to be 2009. The use of the word definitely in quite a few posts kind of bears this out.
That last one is the one I remember.
 

Geordie

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That last one is the one I remember.
Its all water under the bridge now I suppose. But one has to wonder what happened between those statements and now. Something must have occurred to delay the game by another year and it cant just have been CMA.

I have no idea what it could have been but to go from as late as Sep 2009 saying it would still be out that year (if they wanted it to) to nothing in 2010 seems strange to me. I suppose you would know as a tester how different CMBN looks/plays now compared to how it looked in 2008/09. As a spectator I dont see that much graphically different from CMSF and can only surmise that the delays were in the QB's.

Finally, has BF admitted defeat on their oft stated model of a game a year and a Module every six months? I noticed that was said a lot in 2009 as well but seems to never be mentioned now. A game every 4 years and a module a year seems to be the real trend here and no matter what they do or who else they employ this doesnt seem to be changing. If it were true, I imagine you would all have to be testing the CW module by now. How are the Churchills and Cromwells looking?

I actually dont mind the wait for the games, but as Ive said before, its not ME driving expectations, its Steve himself and he should either stop doing it or make sure they can deliver on it.
 

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I can't recall what state CMSF was in late 2009. If all the major problems were ironed out then it is surprising it would take another 20 months to produce new terrain & models & a workable QB system. There again maybe that is a lot of work for a small team.
 

Michael Dorosh

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I can't recall what state CMSF was in late 2009. If all the major problems were ironed out then it is surprising it would take another 20 months to produce new terrain & models & a workable QB system. There again maybe that is a lot of work for a small team.
As you hint at, it is not just new terrain and models (I think anyone can do that, i.e. third parties, which they rely on to produce their games). I believe they are still developing the basic feature set and look and feel of the game. You mention Quick Battles. There are other features - notably, things from CMX1 that fans objected to the deletion of - that keep reappearing as time passes.

If I had to guess, I would say it is this instability in the code that is the real cause of the delay.

This is not a criticism. Obviously it takes time.

The discussion in another thread right now is on the inclusion of anti-aircraft guns. I think that is a fine example. Steve snapped off an answer three years ago about their inclusion in CM:BN. It now turns out they are not included. Again, this is not a criticism, but I wonder if all these things don't take more time and work than anticipated.

In short, I think you are correct, though possibly not for the exact reason surmised. Does make you wonder how many ideas they've had that didn't work out at all and had to be scrapped. I'm sure even da Vinci threw out a canvas once in awhile because he didn't like what he painted.
 

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Steve just sent me a personal email to explain what happened!
Apparantly BFC were set to release the demo in Sept 2009, followed by the full game in October. Then a poster in the forums mentioned that he would like to see FOW foxholes in game. BFC were about to ignore this and press ahead with publication, but the remainder of their 135 strong customer base jumped on the FOW bandwagon and BFC were engulfed in a crisis. A hasty board meeting was called and a vote taken, 2:1 in favour of implemention (Steve voted against, having just told everyone the game would be released in 2009, he realised the work involved would make his prediction look premature). Then followed a lengthy period (18 months) of consultation with the best graphic artists in the world; finally, in 2011, arriving at the solution...........THE PIMPLE!
 

Michael Dorosh

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Steve just sent me a personal email to explain what happened!
Apparantly BFC were set to release the demo in Sept 2009, followed by the full game in October. Then a poster in the forums mentioned that he would like to see FOW foxholes in game. BFC were about to ignore this and press ahead with publication, but the remainder of their 135 strong customer base jumped on the FOW bandwagon and BFC were engulfed in a crisis. A hasty board meeting was called and a vote taken, 2:1 in favour of implemention (Steve voted against, having just told everyone the game would be released in 2009, he realised the work involved would make his prediction look premature). Then followed a lengthy period (18 months) of consultation with the best graphic artists in the world; finally, in 2011, arriving at the solution...........THE PIMPLE!
Just confirms what everyone suspected. Redwolf is an a-hole. :p
 

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I'm curious carl as to what prompted Steve to send you a personal email on the topic. We're you asking on the BFC forum about the delay?

Thanks.
 

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I'm curious carl as to what prompted Steve to send you a personal email on the topic. We're you asking on the BFC forum about the delay?

Thanks.
Judging from the "spent 18 months consulting the best graphics artists in the world" comment, I suspect he was pulling our legs...
 

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Remember we are talking about a game engine--or an evolving game engine project--that began in the fall of 2002 (slightly before or slightly after CMBB was released) and which has been on the market for almost 4 years. The entirety of the CM x 1 theaters-in-a-box releases encompassed a lesser span of time than the time that has passed since the release of CMSF to the current day.
 
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